Ban Niqab?

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #330 - July 19, 2010, 01:31 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 12:52 PM

why should a woman wearing a burqa be able to infringe my rights? I have the right to live in safety, I should have the right to be able to see everyone's face who sees mine.

She isn't infringing ur rights. She's not a danger to you and there is no such thing as the right to see everybody's face who can see yours. Otherwise you could post a picture of ur face on here and we would all be obliged to post a picture of ours otherwise we would be infringing your rights.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #331 - July 19, 2010, 05:10 PM

She isn't infringing ur rights. She's not a danger to you and there is no such thing as the right to see everybody's face who can see yours. Otherwise you could post a picture of ur face on here and we would all be obliged to post a picture of ours otherwise we would be infringing your rights.

how do you know that's she's not a danger to me or others? Because those in burqas have never committed any crime? let's forget about one of the london bombers who who a burqa when he fled the crime or when he fled up north the next day, or armed criminals who can wear the burqa to flee the scene of the crime. It s a security issue a valid one, but its not the basis of my argument. when i see you face to face to say hello, or for any interaction, to be a member of society you need to see ones face. I doubt most people who have seen these women in burqas have rarely or ever interacted with them

You're argument about pictures and whatnot is nonsensical , please don't go over it again, i don't expect everyone i Skype to show their face or on the phone or on email or on internet boards, nor people who have to wear a mask for their work like a surgeon or a police officer. I'm talking about face to face interaction and the whole point is, they don't spend the whole of their public life isolated

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #332 - July 19, 2010, 05:12 PM

Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 19, 2010, 12:57 PM
But again.. is this "cultural" or "religous" re: niqab? As I understand it, it is not even
a dictate in the qaran or ahadeeths.

someone on another thread said it was mentioned in the quran. something about covering face to bosom.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #333 - July 19, 2010, 06:35 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 05:10 PM
how do you know that's she's not a danger to me or others? Because those in burqas have never committed any crime? let's forget about one of the london bombers who who a burqa when he fled the crime or when he fled up north the next day, or armed criminals who can wear the burqa to flee the scene of the crime. It s a security issue a valid one

I can conceive of criminals wearing scarves over their face in the winter as a disguise. Do you think wearing scarves accross the face should be banned?

Quote
but its not the basis of my argument. when i see you face to face to say hello, or for any interaction, to be a member of society you need to see ones face. I doubt most people who have seen these women in burqas have rarely or ever interacted with them

You keep saying this but I'm not even sure exactly what you have in mind. Maybe showing your face whilst walking down the street might increase the likelihood of somebody saying hi to you. And that's nice! But it's not a good enough reason to force these women not to wear it in my opinion.

Quote
You're argument about pictures and whatnot is nonsensical , please don't go over it again, i don't expect everyone i Skype to show their face or on the phone or on email or on internet boards, nor people who have to wear a mask for their work like a surgeon or a police officer. I'm talking about face to face interaction and the whole point is, they don't spend the whole of their public life isolated

But why do you have to see the other person's face when you are talking to them whilst they're right in front of you? I know it might be nice if you could see their face, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why do you NEED to see their face?

[/quote]

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #334 - July 19, 2010, 07:07 PM

We were just watching Arab news channel Al-Arabiya and they mentioned the ban Niqab in France. My parents, sister and aunt all expressed their support for the ban. My aunt said she hopes Britain follows suit.
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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #335 - July 19, 2010, 07:09 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 11:41 AM
I knew a muslim girl who wanted to get a divorce from her scumbag husband. I don't know all the details, suffice to say she would have to go to this sharia court to get her marriage annulled, her husband didn't want to give her a divorce, but she knew the guy at the sharia court would get her going through all manner of hoops to grant this and the drama and community pressure it would bear upon her, she couldn't do it. Id wager a civil court could have granted her a quickie divorce bearing her domestic violence circumstances.

And you can be assured there are many cases like this, far worser cases than this, happening to Muslim women in the UK, 1st, 2nd even 3rd generation immigrants. And just like she didn't bother with going through the divorce, there are girls who wont bother putting up a fight with their mum/dad over being able to show their faces in public, wearing what they want, and having the confidence to change attidutes within their own family. That's where the warfare is happening: in the many homes/living rooms via shouts and arguments. (IMO).

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #336 - July 19, 2010, 07:10 PM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 19, 2010, 07:07 PM
We were just watching Arab news channel Al-Arabiya and they mentioned the ban Niqab in France. My parents, sister and aunt all expressed their support for the ban. My aunt said she hopes Britain follows suit.

did they say why?

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #337 - July 19, 2010, 07:10 PM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 19, 2010, 07:07 PM
We were just watching Arab news channel Al-Arabiya and they mentioned the ban Niqab in France. My parents, sister and aunt all expressed their support for the ban. My aunt said she hopes Britain follows suit.

Interesting. Good to know. Thanks.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #338 - July 19, 2010, 07:10 PM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 19, 2010, 07:07 PM
We were just watching Arab news channel Al-Arabiya and they mentioned the ban Niqab in France. My parents, sister and aunt all expressed their support for the ban. My aunt said she hopes Britain follows suit.

Did they say why they're against it? Do they view the niqab as an unnecessary Islamic practice or not an Islamic practice at all?

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #339 - July 19, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on July 19, 2010, 07:09 PM
And you can be assured there are many cases like this, far worser cases than this, happening to Muslim women in the UK, 1st, 2nd even 3rd generation immigrants. And just like she didn't bother with going through the divorce, there are girls who wont bother putting up a fight with their mum/dad over being able to show their faces in public, wearing what they want, and having the confidence to change attidutes within their own family. That's where the warfare is happening: in the many homes/living rooms via shouts and arguments. (IMO).

I totally agree. Again I'm wondering ultimately who benefits from wearing this. the ban in syria, a half ban seems pointless, my understanding was they did it to prevent cheating in exams.

How many of these young women who wanted to go to uni, can't now because parents will use it as an excuse, " well we don't want you to have to show your face" yet if a full ban implemented they have no option not to go, cause they will have to been seen everywhere.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #340 - July 19, 2010, 07:19 PM

Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on July 19, 2010, 07:07 PM
We were just watching Arab news channel Al-Arabiya and they mentioned the ban Niqab in France. My parents, sister and aunt all expressed their support for the ban. My aunt said she hopes Britain follows suit.

I hear Syria, a muslim country, has now also introduced some kind of niqab ban

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #341 - July 19, 2010, 07:30 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 07:16 PM
How many of these young women who wanted to go to uni, can't now because parents will use it as an excuse, " well we don't want you to have to show your face" yet if a full ban implemented they have no option not to go, cause they will have to been seen everywhere.

Well ... I'm not sure, I'd have to see the statistics. My thinking is those who go to uni will have come to the conclusion to see it as a good thing or have parents liberal enough to see the ban a good thing. Interesting point though, because if such a point can be dismissed by the number of females not dropping, then it would show such a ban is effect and can be applied totally elsewhere like the UK without the issue that women will be kept in the house and not allowed to leave.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #342 - July 19, 2010, 07:54 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 07:10 PM
did they say why?

It's bad image for Muslims, it's not *true* Islam, it promotes Wahabist culture....etc
My sister said it's very ugly and scary !! I was like "that's not a justification" but I thought it would be futile debating with her. She's too opinionated.

Quote from: J4m3z on July 19, 2010, 07:10 PM
Did they say why they're against it? Do they view the niqab as an unnecessary Islamic practice or not an Islamic practice at all?

My aunt's words were "it distorts the image of Islam and incites hatred against us".
My dad thought it was backward and ranted against Wahabism. My mum said "it's no a requirement in Islam".

My mum's aunt who's also visiting went on a tirade against not only the Burka but also the Hijab. I didn't mention her because she used to be a communist so I expected it from her. Her husband is still a radical communist who, although not publicly atheist, is quite the vocal anti-religionist.

He has this sketch of Marx in his living room

EDIT: had to take down the picture and upload it again because it contained my mum's aunt's name....

Marx.jpg (40.35 KB, 856x642 - viewed 246 times.)
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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #343 - July 19, 2010, 07:59 PM

mate, you've got some clued up females in your family

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #344 - July 19, 2010, 08:06 PM

Mr. X, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YOUR AVATAR WAS AWESOME. DAMN YOU MR. X !
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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #345 - July 19, 2010, 08:08 PM

sorry, but i get bored easily!
// you cheeky so and so taking my avatar! * meh* i'll go buddist and let you have her.. this time!

If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #346 - July 19, 2010, 08:08 PM

Not bad Mr X, it's rather good!

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #347 - July 19, 2010, 08:09 PM

don't go having nightmares.

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #348 - July 19, 2010, 08:11 PM

Quote from: Mr X on July 19, 2010, 08:08 PM
sorry, but i get bored easily!
// you cheeky so and so taking my avatar! * meh* i'll go buddist and let you have her.. this time!

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #349 - July 19, 2010, 08:11 PM

The one from the Grudge was in my head for a good two weeks after watching the film. I'd see it standing there ... as I went to sleep ...

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Re: Ban Niqab?
Reply #350 - July 19, 2010, 08:12 PM

Damn you Iraqi Atheist , I thought I could stop waisting time being seduced by that thing. Arrgh!

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