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Theme Changer

 Topic: Come on now!

 (Read 22116 times)
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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #60 - March 20, 2010, 03:34 AM

    Not necessarily, as your priori assumes there is no intermediate step. 

    Ring species mate with other species in closely related populations.  It is often only the two "end" populations in the series that are unable to do so,  it is normally at that point, they break of and are seen as a different species.  You might want to look up Larus Gulls as a good example.

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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #61 - March 20, 2010, 03:40 AM

    I was being silly.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #62 - March 20, 2010, 03:42 AM

    Ahem. I knew that  BS meter

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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #63 - March 20, 2010, 03:46 AM

    I don't understand the smiley. Are you saying I backpedalled?
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #64 - March 20, 2010, 05:42 AM

    No he's saying he's bullshitting you. Ie he didn't know.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #65 - March 20, 2010, 06:00 AM

    HI MY NAME IS LIBERITED, I DONT BELEIF IN EVILUTION COZ I WANT 2 GO 2 H3AVEN. IVE BEEN A BAD BOY, ALLAH WILL SPANK ME 4 PLAYING WITH U NAOUGHTY ATHEIST JINNS.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #66 - March 20, 2010, 06:08 AM

    But he can still believe in God and in evolution. Shit he can be a muslim and believe it.

    Debunker does.

    I'm sorry I don't want to use the word belief for evolution. But ya'll know what I mean.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #67 - March 20, 2010, 06:09 AM

    DEBUNKER LIKES HARAM TINGS. HE BELEIFS IN THE WRONG ALLAH!!

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #68 - March 20, 2010, 06:11 AM

    DEBUNKER IS SMARTAR TEHN YOU BRUV! BLUD BLUD LIKE OW CAN U YEAH BELIEVE DIS CMPLX ASSMOLE YEAH SHAPED INTO DE FACE OV JESSICA ALBA INNIT. LIKE GOD MUST AVE CREATED MY ASSMOLE MATE. COULDNT BEEN DARWIN LOL
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #69 - March 20, 2010, 06:12 AM



    JESSICA ALBA
    Just an assmole on my left butt-check.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #70 - March 20, 2010, 06:13 AM

    I LIKE DA WAY SHE MOOVS HER HIPS. AND HIPS DONT LIE. UNLIKE EVILIEUTION.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #71 - March 20, 2010, 06:14 AM

     Thread jacked

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #72 - March 20, 2010, 06:15 AM

    BRUV LISTEN BLUD I SHOW GIRLS MY LEFT ASSCHEEK YEAH AND THEY GET SEXTED UP YEAH. WHEN WE MAKE BABIES YEAH THEN MY BABIES THEY HAVE ASSMOLES AND THEY EVOLVE INTO LIKE OPTIMUS PRIME YEAH. LIKE NOT NOW OBVISLY BUT LIKE IN THE FUTURE YEAH. LIKE 2500 AD YEAH.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #73 - March 20, 2010, 09:11 AM

    grin12

    Nah, I think I'll let your creationist ass do the research for me. Now go find real credible scientists that posit a god or other intelligent force for any aspect/product of evolution. Anyone who believe there is anything aside from immediate natural explainations of natural selection and random mutations for any trait in existence. Give me one.



    This is a paper that argues for a position of panspermia and directed evolution:-

    http://journalofcosmology.com/Cosmology1.html


    This is a video I found by the author of the paper which is a clearer exposition of his position:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EZyFzkUC4c&feature=player_embedded

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #74 - March 20, 2010, 09:46 AM

    On a general note, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, perhaps Liberated doesn't deserve so much heat and such sharp words.
    If you think he is wrong then help him to what you think is right, no need to put the guy down. Saying things like 'go read some more, listen to the experts' is precisely the opposite of what this site is supposed to be - a healthy rational skeptical place where no question is too dumb to ask.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #75 - March 20, 2010, 01:17 PM

    Look guys, z10 is right. I think time out should be called on this discussion. If Liberated reckons that it's guided, then so be it, does it bother you or have an effect on your beliefs?

    Liberated, without going into the depth of what the guys are trying to point out to you. Let me summarize some points for you, which might help you to look at the whole picture in full.

    1 - Evolution is a fact. Natural selection is the theory used to explain it. Now, the point is, is that the theory works and is explained without the assumption or need for a guiding force.

    2 - Natural selection not only is beneficial for the species, but is also ruthless and capricious. It's the species adapting to the environment bottom up not guided top down. It really is blind and isn't guiding toward some aim or purpose.

    3 - I don't want to posit words into your mouth but lets say a theist god is used as a guiding force. A theist god by definition is personal and makes intervention. It makes god into a kind of "scratch my head" deity. One who seems to be taking eons to make very slow and steady adaptions as needed whilst causing needless suffering and extinctions.

    4 - If you posit aliens or other beings then they are also assumptions which need to be explained. If you don't explain them and just posit them, it makes the explanation ad-hoc and just pushes the problem one step back. That goes with whatever supernatural guide you use.

    5 - Many religious people choose to credit their god with evolution and have adapted their beliefs to accomodate it. But stand outside for five minutes and observe each follower from all the world religions crediting their deity for evolution. Close your eyes and imagine how each of them would manage to do that and how they would square the scriptures with it. You don't have to go too far back in time to see how vehemently evolution was opposed by the same authorities who are adapting their beliefs around it.

    Liberated, the gist of it is that the theory is explained without assuming any guiding force. Some creature adapt and some don't. It really is a ground up theory and not top down. There really needs to be a paradigm shift when looking at evolution.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #76 - March 20, 2010, 01:24 PM

    I don't understand the smiley. Are you saying I backpedalled?

    No, dont worry, I was backpedalling.  My, my, you are sensitive one  Smiley

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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #77 - March 20, 2010, 01:30 PM

    well put again Omaar  Afro We need people like you around here more often  whistling2

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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #78 - March 20, 2010, 02:01 PM




    I think the only way you can square evolution with the Abrahamic concept of God is if he is a disinterested Allah who planted some seeds in a greenhouse or patch of soil and then wandered off to elsewhere in his infinite acres of fields and allowed life to get on with itself, basically he didn't give a damn how it organised itself. Every million years he might stroll past to see how things are getting on, admire the colours and shapes or so on, but he cares no more for the pestilence, plague, genocide or horror that exists on earth than you do for the insects eating other insects or pests chewing on a flower leaf in a tiny patch of ground in a jungle in Africa. Its irrelevant. He doesn't care beyond a consideration of a blink of an eye every million years.

    That makes Allah / God just a meadow keeper, a gardener, who doesn't have any more regard for us than we have for a fruit fly or a bacteria.

    So even then, the Abrahamic concept of God / Allah as being intimately caring for his Earthly 'creation' is nonsense.

    As humans we developed through evolutionary process the higher level capability of cognition and thought to contemplate these things - and then, to use the example of Islam - men created 'Allah' in the mould of a sadistic, cruel, torturing, perverted tyrant to justify their temporal power and imperialism.

    Just to take the metaphor on a stage - Islam does believe in its supremacist destiny, a very evolutionary idea of the strogest prevailing and surviving, the Muslim man will have dominion over all kuffar, and stand on top of a mountain made of their bones with woman sitting at his feet as his slave - but history has caught Islam in its Venus Fly Trap teeth and made it the victim of social 'evolutionary natural selection' - Islam is not the strongest, in fact, Islam has become a 'meme' that has made its proponents weak whilst those who follow other 'evolutionary' social paths, secularism, female equality, individualism etc etc, flourish and grow strong.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #79 - March 20, 2010, 02:21 PM

    Your whole argument was specious. You obviously have no understanding of the mechanism.

    The eye pattern would not be produced in fully formed quadrants one at a time. That is just idiotic. What would have happened is that a rough dot would look something like an eye to a passing predator who may have been distracted by several things, and may not have been operating in perfect lighting, and may also not have had what we would regard as perfect eyesight anyway.

    This could result is said predator choosing a different target that "wasn't already looking at them". This is turn results in the potential prey surviving and passing on its genes to the next generation.

    The process continues.

    Rough dot would look something like an eye? Give me a break.

    Secondly, why would predators care if it looked like an eye or not? These butterflies still get eaten. The only possible explanation can be sexual selection, which is moot as well because a 'rough dot looking like an eye' won't give much of an edge to the butterfly for it to be chosen over other patterns.

    The probabilities are just too low. To think that this could be formed via mutations and natural selection alone takes more faith than to believe that it was guided by some entity. (Before anyone calls me a creationist, note that the entity can also be aliens, or some unknown natural forces, not just god).
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #80 - March 20, 2010, 02:38 PM

    Before anyone calls me a creationist, note that the entity can also be aliens, or some unknown natural forces, not just god).

    Ok, let’s assume you are right. It was aliens.
    So who/what guided their evolution?
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #81 - March 20, 2010, 02:40 PM

    On a general note, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, perhaps Liberated doesn't deserve so much heat and such sharp words.
    If you think he is wrong then help him to what you think is right, no need to put the guy down. Saying things like 'go read some more, listen to the experts' is precisely the opposite of what this site is supposed to be - a healthy rational skeptical place where no question is too dumb to ask.

    Exactly my point. Thanks Smiley
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #82 - March 20, 2010, 02:41 PM

    Ok, let’s assume you are right. It was aliens.
    So who/what guided their evolution?

    That can only be answered when/if the aliens are studied.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #83 - March 20, 2010, 02:42 PM

    Quote
    Rough dot would look something like an eye? Give me a break.

    Secondly, why would predators care if it looked like an eye or not? These butterflies still get eaten. The only possible explanation can be sexual selection, which is moot as well because a 'rough dot looking like an eye' won't give much of an edge to the butterfly for it to be chosen over other patterns.

    The probabilities are just too low. To think that this could be formed via mutations and natural selection alone takes more faith than to believe that it was guided by some entity. (Before any retard calls me a creationist, note that the entity can also be aliens, or some unknown natural forces, not just god).

    You write all that stuff about this butterfly



    and you tell me that you have NO biology/Genetics/Evolutionary Science background dear liberated?  You are too smart to be in other fields of Sciences So move in to Biological Sciences

    Quote
    Secondly, why would predators care if it looked like an eye or not? These butterflies still get eaten.

    that may be true but did any one prove it experimentally that probability of these butter flies getting eaten by a predator is equal are similar in number to that of butterflies without these wonderful eyes??  

    Quote
    The probabilities are just too low. To think that this could be formed via mutations and natural selection alone takes more faith than to believe that it was guided by some entity. (Before any retard calls me a creationist, note that the entity can also be aliens, or some unknown natural forces, not just god).

    What?  

    You mean to say "YOU ARE NOT RETARD??"  lol.. Why dear liberated., In my observation of students, I realized that those who think that they are retards seem to learn more than those who think that they are smart.. So I am on the side of retards.. lol.., So your point here is quite interesting., when you say that

    " To think that this could be formed via mutations and natural selection alone takes more faith than to believe that it was guided by some entity... or some unknown natural forces,.."

    What kind of entities or natural forces do you have in mind?? Is that natural force has anything to do with biological evolution or you think it is completely out of this world.,  I mean earth??

    do you think that hypothesis of George Beadle and Edward Lawrie Tatum  can be questioned?
    Quote


        * All biochemical processes in all living organisms are under genetic control.
        * All biochemical reactions in an organism are resolvable into separate steps.
        * Each step or reaction is under the control of a single gene.
        * Mutation of a single gene results in the loss of function of the appropriate enzyme. In other words, each gene controls the reproduction, function, and specificity of a particular enzyme/proetn.

    So what do you think is the basis for that wonderful colors of butterfly wings??

    with best regards'
    yeezevee




    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #84 - March 20, 2010, 02:49 PM

    That can only be answered when/if the aliens are studied.

    Do you understand the underlying implication of my post?
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #85 - March 20, 2010, 02:50 PM

    Ok, let’s assume you are right. It was aliens.
    So who/what guided their evolution?


    Duh. Theory of Cosmic Alien Selection, of course.

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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #86 - March 20, 2010, 02:51 PM

    lol Islame
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #87 - March 20, 2010, 02:57 PM

    Quote
    z10 on  
    Quote
    On a general note, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, perhaps Liberated doesn't deserve so much heat and such sharp words.
    If you think he is wrong then help him to what you think is right, no need to put the guy down. Saying things like 'go read some more, listen to the experts' is precisely the opposite of what this site is supposed to be - a healthy rational skeptical place where no question is too dumb to ask.

    liberated: Exactly my point. Thanks Smiley

    It is important for many friends who are experts in evolution to consider what Z10/liberated   said above

    Dawkins Fuck off is not

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEl4QfcAK2o

    RIGHT response all the time.,  but it is O.K., when the other guys in the group are as good as Neil deGrasse Tyson

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #88 - March 20, 2010, 04:21 PM

    Do you understand the underlying implication of my post?

    I understand what you're trying to imply, but its wrong to discard the possibility that aliens may be behind it just because we don't know the answers to questions about the aliens that can only be answered if/when they're studied.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #89 - March 20, 2010, 04:56 PM

    liberated  
    Quote
    I understand what you're trying to imply, but its wrong to discard the possibility that alien may be behind it just because we don't know the answers to questions about the aliens that can only be answered if/when they're studied.

    but who is discarding  the possibility of  aliens implication on life on this earth dear liberated?  They are actually suggesting that those aliens who may/may not  be the reason for life or human beings on the earth MUST ALSO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF EVOLUTION.

    that is the point there.,  in other words the rules are same  here or for them..

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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