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Theme Changer

 Topic: Come on now!

 (Read 22121 times)
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  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #120 - March 21, 2010, 01:07 AM

    PS: I state it once again: the "steps" I listed are totally pulled out of my ass as a possible example.
    It's probable that evolution reached that result via other paths.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #121 - March 21, 2010, 01:12 AM

    No, dont worry, I was backpedalling.  My, my, you are sensitive one  Smiley

    I wasn't being sensitive, I was being dense  Smiley
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #122 - March 21, 2010, 01:46 AM

    "dense" in the ironic fashion because as we all know all Iraqis are extremely intelligent, its inherent.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #123 - March 21, 2010, 03:38 AM

    "dense" in the ironic fashion because as we all know all Iraqis are extremely intelligent, its inherent.

    I actually once debated this with a fellow Iraqi. He believes that Iraqis have inherently superior intellects and that have we had a good leader like Sheikh Zayed, we would've ruled the world  Cheesy can't make this shit up.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #124 - March 21, 2010, 04:49 AM

    I guess in the end we differ on the point of whether primitive forms of this eye pattern could have come about and be selected over other patterns of the butterflies. I don't see that happening while you guys do and that's the difference in our reasoning.

    By the way, I found this guy while doing some research, and find his views interesting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Conway_Morris

    Quote
    Simon Conway Morris FRS (born 6 November 1951) is an English paleontologist made known by his detailed and careful study of the Burgess Shale fossils, an exploit celebrated in Wonderful Life by Stephen Jay Gould.....

    Conway Morris suggests:[5]
    Evolution shows an eerie predictability, leading to the direct contradiction of the widely-held view that insists on evolution being governed by the contingencies of circumstance

    Eyes are not the only example of repeated evolutionary convergence on the same solution. There is evidence for fundamental equivalences of sensory perception and the implication that deeper in the nervous system there is only one mentality. Minds may be not only universal, but also the same.

    Evolutionary convergence can give us some very strong hints as to how any aliens will sense their environment, how they will move, how they will evolve agriculture, and intelligence.

    Humans have passed a threshold that means we now transcend our animal origins. But birds, whales and humans all converge in song, and far from being the pinnacle of Creation we may be mere juveniles.

    The regularities of the physical world he mentions the Euclidean geometry of three dimensional space or the three degrees of freedom shown by terrestrial illumination, and citing Roger Shepard, that there must be universal principles of mind. The evidence from evolutionary convergence, not least in terms of intelligence and music, is that the trajectories towards consciousness are embedded in a universe that in some ways is strangely familiar, where personal knowledge (to use Polanyi’s phrase) is valid.

    Any attempt to explain, entirely in naturalistic terms, the fact that universe can now understand itself seems doomed to failure. Not only is the Creation open-ended and endlessly fertile, suggesting that in the future science itself faces an infinity of understandings, but so too there is good evidence of realities orthogonal to every-day experiences. Rather than trudging across the arid landscapes skimpily sketched by the materialists, we need to accept the invitation and accompany the Artist that brought Creation into being.

    He is a strong critic of materialism and of reductionism:
    That satisfactory definitions of life elude us may be one hint that when materialists step forward and declare with a brisk slap of the hands that this is it, we should be deeply skeptical. Whether the “it” be that of Richard Dawkins’ reductionist gene-centred worldpicture, the “universal acid” of Daniel Dennett’s meaningless Darwinism, or David Sloan Wilson’s faith in group selection, we certainly need to acknowledge each provides insights but as total explanations of what we see around us they are, to put it politely, somewhat incomplete.[2]

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #125 - March 21, 2010, 09:14 AM

    I actually once debated this with a fellow Iraqi. He believes that Iraqis have inherently superior intellects and that have we had a good leader like Sheikh Zayed, we would've ruled the world  Cheesy can't make this shit up.


    lol i know exactly what you're talking about
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #126 - March 21, 2010, 02:02 PM

    I guess in the end we differ on the point of whether primitive forms of this eye pattern could have come about and be selected over other patterns of the butterflies. I don't see that happening while you guys do and that's the difference in our reasoning.

    No, the difference is simply that you refuse to accept that mutation and selection can find certain solutions because those solutions appear "too fascinating" to you.

    You don't even take into considerations that there might be a billion of other solutions that you would find just as fascinating but they never came into existence because of simple chance.

    Maybe if you lowered your fascination threshold, you could find even more amazing things about this universe.

    For example, do this mental experiment:
    - Throw a 6 sided die for a million times and write down the numbers
    - Look at such fascinating series of numbers from 1 to 6
    - Then ask yourself what was the chance that the same series of 1 million numbers could appear in front of you if you repeat the experiment
    - Realize that it could not have been the result of mere randomness! ^_^

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #127 - March 21, 2010, 05:04 PM

    No, the difference is that I cannot think of any primitive forms of this pattern that would come about and would provide an advantage over other patterns and result in the formation of this eye pattern over time.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #128 - March 21, 2010, 05:49 PM

    Oki Libby my love, I shall explain this to youuu my dear.

    Imagine a rock: (represented by this) :::::::::::::::::
                                                           :::::::::::::::::
                                                           :::::::::::::::::  (for its textures etc)

    now say 2 creatures had the following paternations on them - ":":":":":":":":":":, and ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;, the 2nd would blend in more with the rock wouldn't it? So therefore would not die as rapidly as would not be predated by predators. So basically the ones with the best genes to blend in or run or whatver survive, therefore only those genes are likely to have survived till sexual maturity, these genes therefore get passed on. Given the amount of time organisms have been around this would have happened countless times. But dont get me wrong, if the environment changes some will not be adapted for that environment (mass extinctions) and therefore no creature gets perfectly refined. Also there is the thing about niches, if something survives best in on environment, it will exploit that and also if it were elsewhere would get killed off, this is where the multiple species comes in due to environmental reasons.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #129 - March 21, 2010, 08:03 PM

    Watch this starting at 15 Minutes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyh1Qsw-Ak
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #130 - March 21, 2010, 08:23 PM

    Sorry. Wrong video:

    I meant this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1-Stl1D94
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #131 - March 21, 2010, 11:28 PM

    lol - I love how you have selected a kids evolution video for this thread  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #132 - March 22, 2010, 02:24 AM

    Hi guys,

    Ok, I apologize to everyone who may have been offended by my thread. I was just going through a phase recently which has passed now (I believe). I was just clutching at every straw hoping there could be some evidence of a higher power of some sort. A few days ago the butterfly eyes seemed like that evidence but now I can't even remember why I would think those patterns can't be formed through natural selection. Even my own simulation from my last thread showed that a face like pattern could emerge and this is just two circles.

    Its also funny that I was reading more into theistic evolution and some other theistic websites and their answers don't convince me anymore even though I wanted to find something that would convince me. Like their answer to 'who created the creator' is that the creator is timeless/eternal, and 'why there is disease and evil, etc' is that 'sometimes good comes out of bad circumstances'. That doesn't satisfy me at all.

    I guess I am an atheist deep down now and I can't run away from it.

    Anyway, apologies to anyone who might've been offended or frustrated by my thread.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #133 - March 22, 2010, 02:34 AM

    Hi guys,

    Ok, I apologize to everyone who may have been offended by my thread. I was just going through a phase recently which has passed now (I believe). I was just gripping at every straw hoping there could be some evidence of a higher power of some sort. A few days ago the butterfly eyes seemed like that evidence but now I can't even remember why I would think those patterns can't be formed through natural selection. Even my own simulation from my last thread showed that a face like pattern could emerge and this is just two circles.

    Its also funny that I was reading more into theistic evolution and some other theistic websites and their answers don't convince me anymore even though I wanted to find something that would convince me. Like their answer to 'who created the creator' is that the creator is timeless/eternal, and 'why there is disease and evil, etc' is that 'sometimes good comes out of bad circumstances'. That doesn't satisfy me at all.

    I guess I am an atheist deep down now and I can't run away from it.

    Anyway, apologies to anyone who might've been offended or frustrated by my thread.

     mysmilie_977

    So I take it you were kinda trolling? Or was it serious stuff that kinda got into you?

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #134 - March 22, 2010, 02:39 AM

    No I wasn't trolling, I was serious about everything I said.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #135 - March 22, 2010, 06:02 AM

    This thread is embarassing. I don't know what I was smoking when I made this  whistling2. Can mods delete it?
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #136 - March 22, 2010, 06:50 AM

    Guy's it takes courage to admit to yourself and others that you were in error. Liberated has apologised. Just let it be and move on now.

    Liberated - It's a good thing that you have finally understood. At least you gave it some rigour.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #137 - March 22, 2010, 07:04 AM

    Liberated - I don't think an apology is needed. You should never be sorry for asking questions and having doubts  Smiley

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #138 - March 22, 2010, 07:28 AM

    Yeah dude. What the smart and wise guys said. If you have doubts deal with them, but in an objective and rational manner. I will follow my own advice as well.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #139 - March 22, 2010, 07:30 AM

    So wait Liberated, please explain how can you be certain now? If you want to. What are your thoughts on this pattern emergence? Go through your own arguments and make counter arguments. Which argument finally convinced you?
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #140 - March 22, 2010, 04:26 PM

    So wait Liberated, please explain how can you be certain now? If you want to. What are your thoughts on this pattern emergence? Go through your own arguments and make counter arguments. Which argument finally convinced you?


    Well, if you look at this picture:



    It has got black and golden circles all over itself, not just the big ones on the lower part of its wings. In the top left and right corners of both its wings, it has got almost identical, but smaller circles. Its possible that two small eye like patterns appeared on the lower wings, and then natural selection favored those with larger patterns, which resulted in the pattern size growing until it reached the size it is today.

    Also, the examples given by Tlaloc helped.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #141 - March 22, 2010, 05:23 PM

    Damn.. that Dawkins seems to be speaking to 9year old kids., Hell.. when do we get such teachers to 9 year olds in the countries like Iran to Indonesia...

    Lucky Rascals  .,  



    what we have Now in UK is school like these
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhTJeuQxXgk

     And in pakistan  school like these
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7U8YBcIgyM


    Ha!  look at this hero from Land of pure  
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4r9f6VyWXY

    Damn he is Calipha ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #142 - March 22, 2010, 05:24 PM

    good that you get it now, hugs well done for questioning dear.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #143 - March 22, 2010, 05:28 PM

    @liberated

    Apology accepted. Now kiss Dawkins' hand and swear your loyalty.

    *unsheaths sword*

    Any problems?  cool2

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #144 - March 22, 2010, 05:39 PM

    Also, the examples given by Tlaloc helped.

    yw :*

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #145 - March 22, 2010, 05:45 PM

    Since this thread is almost finished, i just found something really funny.

    http://failblog.org/2010/03/09/epic-fail-photos-church-sign-fail-3/

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves." - from Goethes Faust
    "Only the wisest and the stupidest men never change." - Confuzios
    "there is no religion of peace, only people who are peaceful while being religious."
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #146 - March 22, 2010, 05:45 PM

    ROFL

    Well at least they're^ honest.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #147 - March 22, 2010, 06:03 PM

    yw :*

    What does this mean?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #148 - March 22, 2010, 06:05 PM

    yw = yahweh

    He's praising Yahweh for his evolutionary victory.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Come on now!
     Reply #149 - March 22, 2010, 06:06 PM

    yw = yahweh

    He's praising Yahweh for his evolutionary victory.

    My crypto-jew identity got busted! ;(

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
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