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Theme Changer

 Topic: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?

 (Read 29357 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     OP - March 28, 2010, 09:46 PM

    How many of you girls wore a niqab/burka at some point of your lives when you were muslims? What was your general experience of it? Did you feel it increased your imam and make you feel fulfilled? Or did it just get in the way all the time and make you ridiculously hot? And those of you who have had to wear it in the hotter countries, how difficult was this for you? Any of you guys still experience sexual harassment with it on?

    I just read one members experience of it so wondering whether others experienced anything similar.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #1 - March 29, 2010, 07:27 PM

    I was compelled / forced to wear it for a relatively short period of time in the Middle East.  I ***hated*** it.  It did not make me more modest; to the contrary, it made me aware of myself standing out (b/c even in the ME, except for Saudi and a few other places, niqabis are the minority).  I didn't like it that people assumed I was of a particular political or religious school (Salafi or Islamist).  Wearing niqab brings with it people's expectations that you will adhere to particular behaviors in public and if you don't even non-hijabi people will get on your case (wearing socks, not eating food, not laughing, etc). 

    Niqabi secret: Many niqabis spend a lot of time and even money trying to find niqabs that don't bother their eyes or face or that are easy to breathe in.  The half veils - many of them are thick fabric and they hurt your nose and eyes. The full one (boushya, burqa, tie backs, whatever you call it) they slip a lot and the fabric isn't that great or it's see thru or something.  You spend a LOT of time trying to adjust it and make it just so. It is MUCH hotter than just wearing hijab & abayah.  I had no fewer than 8 niqabs b/c of this. 

    There seemed to be an obsession / contest amongst niqabis about who was wearing the best, who was the most modest, who was flashy, etc. 

    I took it off after maybe about 6 weeks or so, and I refused to wear it again. I was told many times to put it on and banned from a few places over it, was called a "loose woman," but I didn't care.   

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #2 - March 29, 2010, 08:00 PM

    I read one of your old threads about the niqab, that's why I started this thread. It is appalling what niqabis have to put up with! Did you ever wear the niqab that also covers the eyes? Do you know what the vision is like in those? I cant how difficult it must be to do anything in that!

    Also have you ever tried eating in a niqab? Has anyone ever tried this?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #3 - March 29, 2010, 08:09 PM

    Here's an interesting article regarding the niqab:
    “Unveiling The Truth Behind A Life In Niqab”

    This part is worth reading:
    Quote
    All three women confess their burning desire to work. They acknowledge, however, that
    they have made a major sacrifice for this religious commitment since no jobs in Egypt are
    willing to hire niqab women. It is not illegal for niqab women to work, however, most
    employers, particularly those in the private sector, confess openly that a woman covering
    her face exudes an uninviting air – and that is bad for business.



  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #4 - March 29, 2010, 08:12 PM

    Niqabis in Western countries - what percentage of them do you think are genuinely happy wearing it, particularly amongst converts? Because as a male, I can't talk to them, I have never really known if they actually do it willingly or not.

    You are always told by Muslims that women choose to dress like that but how true is it?

    (Sorry for the dumb questions!)

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #5 - March 30, 2010, 04:25 AM

    I read one of your old threads about the niqab, that's why I started this thread. It is appalling what niqabis have to put up with! Did you ever wear the niqab that also covers the eyes? Do you know what the vision is like in those? I cant how difficult it must be to do anything in that!


    I did have the niqabs that have an eye veil. I mostly didn't wear them, but once or twice I flipped them down from the sun.  Some of them, the expensive ones, have a fabric that is not unlike wearing sunglasses, but then remember, you now have two or three layers of fabric - however lightweight it is - on your face.  (Many niqabs have three layers - the eye cover which is usually flipped back, the top veil and then an inner layer, usually gauze or cotton that sits on the face).  Most women can't afford those niqabs though, and the eye veil is very thick and hazy - it is  NOT like sunglasses, so don't listen to them unless they've paid about US$30 or more for their niqab.  I had some expensive ones that were given to me as a gift from a niqabi fanatic who was so happy I was going to wear the niqab she sent away for them specially.

    There is something to be said, though, for the perverse pleasure you get when people don't know who or what you are looking at, LOL.  But you can get that same effect with sunglasses!

    Quote
    Also have you ever tried eating in a niqab? Has anyone ever tried this?


    When I wrote about behaviour expectations, that is one thing I thought of.  I was walking down a street one day with a little pastie, and eating it under a half niqab (the kind with the elastic band that comes with a matching scarf) and this woman who was in heavy, heavy makeup and skintight clothes just glared at me and said "Not acceptable!"  I think that was the second to last day that I tried to wear that stupid thing.   I was tired of being policed and stared at and I did not believe it was obligatory upon me and then that's when my problems started (or you could say started to end, because I started to rebel against the stupid rules and question them more). 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #6 - March 30, 2010, 05:08 AM

    Did you feel it increased your imam and make you feel fulfilled?

    grin12
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #7 - March 30, 2010, 05:10 AM

    banned from a few places over it

    Which places?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #8 - March 30, 2010, 05:50 AM

    Great story Manat. It's great that you're here with us cuz I've always wanted to get a better picture of Muslim politics in America. I would really appreciate it if you could talk a bit about how your life as a Muslim in America was (in a different thread and at a time of your choosing). Also, when you have the time and the effort please could you take about the Islamic Organizations there like CAIR and the mosque Imams you have come across there. I realize that the US is a huge country so I presume Muslim community there is not monolithic but still even if you're experiences are anecdotal and unrepresentative, I would love to hear what you have to say about it.
    BTW, is your heritage/ancestry from the Gulf region?


    Quote from: from the article
    “I am dying to work of course but only if they genuinely respected our ideas and our
    abilities,” says Mostafa. “But they think we can’t talk and we are introverted. Many
    people don’t even want to give us a chance because of what we wear.”

    Call me a bad person but when I see a woman in niqab I automatically assume that she's not the social type. Maybe it's an invalid prejudice but you know what? until the niqabi initiates the conversation, I'm gonna keep that prejudice and I'm not gonna start the conversation.
    And regarding employment, unless it's a call center or some sort of unseen medical lab or sth, I wouldn't hire a Niqabi. Just show your face and see the difference in attitudes.  


    Quote from: from the article
    Sameh was in her last year at Cairo University when, as she describes, she showed up one
    day suddenly dressed in niqab.
    “They freaked out,” she recalls, laughing. “I was the only person in niqab in all four
    grades. No one knew how to handle it.”
    People have this very negative image of women in niqab - that they are low class and
    uneducated
    ,” adds El-Meshad. “One of the reasons why I wore it was the people take a
    better idea of the niqab. To me it was like, I am educated, I know how to talk, I am
    social, and I wear niqab. I make it a point to go and talk to people for that reason.”

    To be honest I personally don't think niqabis are necessarily uneducated. However, I do assume (and rightly so) that the woman is very pious and religious. This is not just with Niqabis. When I see a bearded man dressed in a dark suit and a hat or a kippah I assume this man is an Orthodox/Haredi Jew who is also very devout and strict about religion.
    Needless to say, being that religious always implies associated connotations, and the individual in question should expect and accept those connotations
      
    Quote from: from the article
    Their decision to wear niqab, they say, was in no way influenced by any
    man in their life, be it their husbands or fathers.

    I wish this was the case but it isn't. It might even be 50/50 but the truth is even when there is no physical forcing, there must be some sort of communal/familial pressure or influence.

    Out of a huge extended family, only one aunt wears niqab-we call it booshiya-. She was a liberal miniskirt-wearing Witney Houston-listening architecture student until she fell in love with a Wahabi. My grandfather refused to give his approval of the marriage although he didn't physically prevent her. She eloped and now lives with her husband in Dubai. I'm pretty sure he didn't make her wear it but I also wouldn't say it was completely her choice.


  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #9 - March 30, 2010, 06:12 AM

    I think wearing a niqab is a hollow type of "modesty". To me, the idea of wearing a niqab is "look at me, look at me, I'm pious and modest", a woman in a line wearing a niqab in any Western country is going to stand out and raise eyebrows more than anyone else, attracting unnecessary attention. To me, that's a sort of fake modesty because it has the reverse effect on the person wearing the niqab.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #10 - March 30, 2010, 06:17 AM

    I partially agree Unechance. I mean yes without a doubt some do it to show off their religiosity but it's unfair to say that that is the case with all Niqabi women.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #11 - March 30, 2010, 09:21 AM

    I think wearing a niqab is a hollow type of "modesty". To me, the idea of wearing a niqab is "look at me, look at me, I'm pious and modest", a woman in a line wearing a niqab in any Western country is going to stand out and raise eyebrows more than anyone else, attracting unnecessary attention. To me, that's a sort of fake modesty because it has the reverse effect on the person wearing the niqab.


    Maybe that's what it is, but not all niqabis put it on to gain the "look at me, I'm so pious" part.

    I hated wearing it, and sometimes it was only force that made me wear it, but there was a time I wore it to show allah how committed I was, not to get people thinking I was pious, but so that allah knew I was.  It was a private thing between allah and me, and not about a public show.

    The fact that people stared was minor in comparison to allah knowing that I was committed.

    The pro's were that I knew people were staring at me for a specific reason, rather than all the imagined reasons I imagine when I never wore it.  I was anonymous, which for me and my need to be left alone was wonderful.  I could walk past people I knew and not have to stop and say hello.  I'm pretty anti social, and it really helped with that.  Grin

    The cons were the inability to breathe properly.  I don't sleep under a blanket, never have done, I feel suffocated even if I try to leave a gap for air, so having my mouth covered was claustrophobic to the max.  It's like nasty stale warm air being recycled over and over again.  I used to come home and rip it off on the few times I went out, which I'll be honest, I mostly avoided doing.

    It's hot, I wore dark colours always, and I don't care what more pious muslimahs say about it not being hot, to me I was sweltering.

    I never wore eye coverings though.  That just seemed stupid.  What, I'm supposed to go blind practically lest some guy go bonkers for my eyes?  no I don't think so.

    All in all, even though I miss being able to hide behind it, I would never wear one again.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #12 - March 30, 2010, 10:14 AM

    Cool stories Manat and Berbs. It’s interesting to see things through the eyes of somebody who actually wore and experienced the thing.

    I think wearing a niqab is a hollow type of "modesty".

    Have you ever wondered why full body covering would be mandated at all? What is the logic behind it?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #13 - March 30, 2010, 10:26 AM

    Quote
    Have you ever wondered why full body covering would be mandated at all? What is the logic behind it?


    Anyone who chooses to wear a big black cloak around a shopping center in Paris is drawing attention to themselves. To me, the idea of modesty is that you're trying to take attention away from you rather than present yourself as a walking billboard for modesty; which contradicts itself.

    Quote
    Maybe that's what it is, but not all niqabis put it on to gain the "look at me, I'm so pious" part.


    As I've read from other people, a lot of Muslims judge one another by how pious they are or how modestly dressed they are. If so, then isn't a Muslim wearing that niqab to create a bold statement of their piousness or devoutness to those that look at the niqabi? Perhaps this is why the niqab becomes so common in places like London and yet uncommon in Muslim-majority countries like Indonesia... It's a mentality of segregation by proving that one is more devout than the rest.

    That's how it seems from someone who has never been a Muslim, such as myself.  Tongue
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #14 - March 30, 2010, 10:38 AM

    Anyone who chooses to wear a big black cloak around a shopping center in Paris is drawing attention to themselves. To me, the idea of modesty is that you're trying to take attention away from you rather than present yourself as a walking billboard for modesty; which contradicts itself.

    What about all those women who “choose” to wear burka in Afghanistan? See it's a dogma. As far as they are oncerned modesty is modesty. Doesn't matter if it's Paris or Kabul.

    Why is it mandated for women specifically?

    What is the underlying logic?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #15 - March 30, 2010, 10:41 AM

    Quote
    What about all those women who “choose” to wear burka in Afghanistan? See it's a dogma. As far as they are oncerned modesty is modesty. Doesn't matter if it's Paris or Kabul.

    Why is it mandated for women specifically?

    What is the underlying logic?


    Yes but it is a completely different matter if it is forced upon someone because then they're not making underlying decisions about what the niqab represents or why they're wearing it; they're wearing it because they have to.

    All I'm trying to say is that a black veil in any Western society is going to raise eyebrows and attract attention, which seems incredibly contradictory to the idea of modesty to me. A woman in a Western society that chooses to wear the niqab obviously understands that it's not the norm and obviously understands it is out of the ordinary, which to any other member of society, is going to attract attention which is not what modesty is about.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #16 - March 30, 2010, 10:41 AM



    As I've read from other people, a lot of Muslims judge one another by how pious they are or how modestly dressed they are. If so, then isn't a Muslim wearing that niqab to create a bold statement of their piousness or devoutness to those that look at the niqabi? Perhaps this is why the niqab becomes so common in places like London and yet uncommon in Muslim-majority countries like Indonesia... It's a mentality of segregation by proving that one is more devout than the rest.

    That's how it seems from someone who has never been a Muslim, such as myself.  Tongue


    No, I honestly think it's more about the personal choice between allah and the woman in question.  I'm sure that for some, maybe even many, it's about the public show.  I know for my ex husband it was about the show, having a niqabi wife walking behind him made him gain higher esteem in the community, but for me, the niqabi in question, other people and what they thought were never a part of the choice.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #17 - March 30, 2010, 11:03 AM

    All I'm trying to say is that a black veil in any Western society is going to raise eyebrows and attract attention, which seems incredibly contradictory to the idea of modesty to me.

    You are correct in saying that this generally speaking is not a question of modesty.

    Like Berbs said it can be the exact opposite. Btw Berbs did you come up with your sig?

    But still why full covering for women only?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #18 - March 30, 2010, 12:24 PM

    Btw Berbs did you come up with your sig?




    Yup lol.  Tongue

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #19 - March 30, 2010, 12:37 PM

    It's quite good.
    I have noticed that you have a knack for writing. Maybe you should write a book about yourself and your experience of leaving Islam.
    Btw when you get rich please donate 5% of the revenue to all who were given JOTM title for February 2010.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #20 - March 30, 2010, 12:46 PM

    Thanks hugs , and hopefully one day I will write something, just not yet.  Lost confidence in writing and I need to get it back first.

    Oh, and when I get rich, forget the donations, I shall hire those jesters as my court jesters.  dance

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #21 - March 30, 2010, 01:00 PM

    ... I shall hire those jesters as my court jesters.  dance

    As long as you pay well ...
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #22 - March 30, 2010, 02:56 PM

    Quote from: Kenan
    But still why full covering for women only?


    Because like most religions, Islam was invented by a MAN thereby determining the standard for the religion to be inherantly male whilst the female is seen as the 'other'.  Islam views the world from a purely male standpoint, thus all the extra restrictions on females in order to control male lust and behavior.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #23 - March 30, 2010, 03:22 PM

    Because like most religions, Islam was invented by a MAN thereby determining the standard for the religion to be inherantly male whilst the female is seen as the 'other'.  Islam views the world from a purely male standpoint, thus all the extra restrictions on females in order to control male lust and behavior.

    Do you realize how offensive in fact this is to Muslims? By that I mean males specifically. For some reason they don’t seem to be bothered much.
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #24 - March 30, 2010, 04:50 PM

    Which places?


    I'm not going to get too specific here, but they were privately owned places, not publicly owned.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #25 - March 30, 2010, 04:56 PM


    Quote
    Maybe that's what it is, but not all niqabis put it on to gain the "look at me, I'm so pious" part.


    As I've read from other people, a lot of Muslims judge one another by how pious they are or how modestly dressed they are. If so, then isn't a Muslim wearing that niqab to create a bold statement of their piousness or devoutness to those that look at the niqabi? Perhaps this is why the niqab becomes so common in places like London and yet uncommon in Muslim-majority countries like Indonesia... It's a mentality of segregation by proving that one is more devout than the rest.

    That's how it seems from someone who has never been a Muslim, such as myself.


    Yes a lot of Muslims do judge one another by these things - just like a lot of Christians do or a lot of whoevers. Shit, people in general judge one another by these things like how one is dressed or how one adheres to a certain norm, and religion doesn't have to be a part of it. But that doesn't mean that a Muslim woman who is wearing the niqab is doing it for that reason.  You must be fair to that woman and understand that every individual woman who wears it has her own personal intentions and reasons and history, just as we assume such things for any individual of any faith who does something. 

    There are women who get a clitoral hard on by showing how much more pious they are than everyone else, but I don't think that one can fairly say that they represent the majority or all of the niqabis in the west.  In my personal experience, if a woman is wearing niqab in a western country, she is doing it out of either force or personal conviction that it is absolutely required of her.  And I say that having known women who totally got a little charge and got off on wearing it and showing how holy they were... still, more of them did it b/c they really believed that they must.  In my personal circle of friends that I had, I would say that none of them are still wearing it today, except for one woman I know in London whose husband pretty much requires it of her  and uses their school of Islam to back him up on it, and she would never dare question him. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #26 - March 30, 2010, 04:59 PM

    All I'm trying to say is that a black veil in any Western society is going to raise eyebrows and attract attention, which seems incredibly contradictory to the idea of modesty to me. A woman in a Western society that chooses to wear the niqab obviously understands that it's not the norm and obviously understands it is out of the ordinary, which to any other member of society, is going to attract attention which is not what modesty is about.


    You are not understanding the Islamic concept of modesty.  Islamic modesty isn't about fading into the background and being plain and unnoticed. It's sexual modesty, full stop.  In the west, when we say modest, we usually mean someone who is plain, humble, not flashy, etc.  It doesn't mean that in Islam, esp. with regards to the hijab.  While there are, in some schools, rules about flashy hijabs, generally Islam has no problem whatsoever with luxury or women wearing colorful clothes or standing out.

    In fact, the quran, in the passage used to support the obligation of veiling, tells women that they should cover with cloaks to be known -- to be noticed and singled out and set apart as Muslim women. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #27 - March 30, 2010, 05:03 PM

    It's sexual modesty, full stop.

    How come Muslim man aren't offended by that?
  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #28 - March 30, 2010, 05:04 PM

    Because Muslim men know that they can control their lusts perfectly well and those laws are more to do with controlling women rather than modesty or male lusts. And controlling women satisfies and puts a  Smiley on many a man's face.


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Your experiences of the niqab/burka?
     Reply #29 - March 30, 2010, 05:07 PM

    You are not understanding the Islamic concept of modesty.  Islamic modesty isn't about fading into the background and being plain and unnoticed. It's sexual modesty, full stop.  In the west, when we say modest, we usually mean someone who is plain, humble, not flashy, etc.  It doesn't mean that in Islam, esp. with regards to the hijab.  While there are, in some schools, rules about flashy hijabs, generally Islam has no problem whatsoever with luxury or women wearing colorful clothes or standing out.

    In fact, the quran, in the passage used to support the obligation of veiling, tells women that they should cover with cloaks to be known -- to be noticed and singled out and set apart as Muslim women.  


    Excellent - an important post and distinction.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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