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 Topic: Chromosomes in quran?

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  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #30 - April 10, 2010, 07:22 PM
    Quote from: JustTheFacts on April 08, 2010, 04:20 PM
    The verse should be interpreted as referring to base pairing in DNA.

    What about (single-stranded) RNA viruses? They have a single-stranded RNA molecule instead of DNA as genetic material.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #31 - April 10, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Quote from: HorrorVacui on April 10, 2010, 07:12 PM

    So how can he know to what the Qur'an refers then?



    Because he knew that a lot of animals don't come in pairs so he took Biology 101 in college and remembered that Chromosomes have pairs ( usually) and being intellectually lazy he just assumed that is what Allah really meant.  But nature always finds a way to screw with us. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #32 - April 11, 2010, 09:48 AM
    Quote from: HorrorVacui on April 10, 2010, 07:22 PM
    What about (single-stranded) RNA viruses? They have a single-stranded RNA molecule instead of DNA as genetic material.


    That's an interesting fact, do you have a URL?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #33 - April 13, 2010, 06:20 PM
    Quote
    That's an interesting fact, do you have a URL?


    Sorry for the late reply.

    Besides wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_virus:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bookshelf/br.fcgi?book=mmed&part=A2294

    http://www.mcb.uct.ac.za/tutorial/RNA%20virus%20replication.htm

    may be helpful
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #34 - April 13, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on April 04, 2010, 07:47 PM
    Dare I ask what that is?  Huh?

    Sorry for the ultra late reply (down to more fishing I'm afraid. Priorities, y'know).
    We are all of us, from starfish onwards, pairs of isomers; mirror images that is. Strange that we can be both (apparently)  individuals and pairs , at the same time. Everything we have on one side of us is mirrored on the other side: just like DNA in fact.
    And before you say 'But starfish have 5 arms/legs; one of them is two halves joined lengthways.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #35 - April 13, 2010, 07:01 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 06:54 PM
    We are all of us, from starfish onwards, pairs of isomers; mirror images that is. Strange that we can be both (apparently)  individuals and pairs , at the same time. Everything we have on one side of us is mirrored on the other side: just like DNA in fact.

    what about our liver on the right hand side  whistling2
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  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #36 - April 13, 2010, 07:38 PM
    OK smartie pants.  This may start to explain things without too much rigmarole.
    http://  Problem is, I haven't figured out how to create a hyperlink yet on my new Mini Mac.
    So you'll have to google 'HHMI benjamin prud'homme on the liver'.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #37 - April 13, 2010, 08:03 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Sorry for the ultra late reply (down to more fishing I'm afraid. Priorities, y'know).
    We are all of us, from starfish onwards, pairs of isomers; mirror images that is. Strange that we can be both (apparently)  individuals and pairs , at the same time. Everything we have on one side of us is mirrored on the other side: just like DNA in fact.
    And before you say 'But starfish have 5 arms/legs; one of them is two halves joined lengthways.


    Cool!

  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #38 - April 13, 2010, 08:17 PM
    Wheels within wheels or what!
    Anyway, time for bo-bos: fishing again tomorrow.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #39 - April 13, 2010, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Sorry for the ultra late reply (down to more fishing I'm afraid. Priorities, y'know).
    We are all of us, from starfish onwards, pairs of isomers; mirror images that is. Strange that we can be both (apparently)  individuals and pairs , at the same time. Everything we have on one side of us is mirrored on the other side: just like DNA in fact.
    And before you say 'But starfish have 5 arms/legs; one of them is two halves joined lengthways.


    That would be "we created everything in two halves" or "we created everything mirrored".  It's only a pair if there are two things of the same - saying that it means "we are repeated on each side" is just frankly bollocks.

    PS: Appendix.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #40 - April 13, 2010, 08:22 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 07:38 PM
    OK smartie pants.  This may start to explain things without too much rigmarole.
    http://  Problem is, I haven't figured out how to create a hyperlink yet on my new Mini Mac.
    So you'll have to google 'HHMI benjamin prud'homme on the liver'.

    this link?
    http://www.hhmi.org/askascientist/answers/how_did_organs_evolve_in_simple_multicellular_organisms_for_example_how_did_the_liver_or_its_pred.html
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  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #41 - April 13, 2010, 08:25 PM
    How did organs evolve in simple multicellular organisms?
    Hope you got this Islame. sorry, it's buggered up again.



    ETA: Fixed the link.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #42 - April 13, 2010, 08:32 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on April 13, 2010, 08:21 PM
    That would be "we created everything in two halves" or "we created everything mirrored".  It's only a pair if there are two things of the same - saying that it means "we are repeated on each side" is just frankly bollocks.

    PS: Appendix.

     Yes, bollocks are a good case in point: one left one and one right one, (well, usually). Same with hands, etc.
    Where did the 'created' business come from anyway? What's wrong with 'evolved'? Tsk, tsk.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #43 - April 13, 2010, 08:45 PM
    Thanks - interesting article.

    It says "However, the first animals were not bilaterians."  This article only applies to bilateral modern animals = bilaterians.  No surprise then that they are bilateral  Wink. 

    Also what about disabled people, why are they are also ignored as one of Allahs creatures in the quran?

    Its interesting though that most organs are repeated on the other half, I cant see any practical reason why this should be so  - I wonder if this was just 'laziness' on evolutions part.

    Also I did not see a reason given for liver not having its mirror image on the left hand side?
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  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #44 - April 13, 2010, 09:55 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 08:32 PM
    Yes, bollocks are a good case in point: one left one and one right one, (well, usually). Same with hands, etc.
    Where did the 'created' business come from anyway? What's wrong with 'evolved'? Tsk, tsk.


    If I had written "evolved" as a potential Quranic verse it would have had scientific credibility.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #45 - April 13, 2010, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: @li on April 04, 2010, 01:26 AM
    I consulted with a sheikh about your pairs question. He said this means that everything has a male and female gender or more specifically to single cellular organisms: two chromosomes....whatever species there is it has to have two to reproduce and exist. Whether or not a species can be male or female ,or have the will to change or become asexual...it still has to have both genders or at least two chromosomes to split to exist.


    That's it - Islam is true!

    I mean there is no way that Muhammad just looked around and thought all creatures need a male and female.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #46 - April 14, 2010, 06:10 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on April 13, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Everything we have on one side of us is mirrored on the other side: just like DNA in fact.

    Only the two strands of the DNA, but not the base pairs / the genetic instructions.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #47 - April 14, 2010, 06:16 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 10:05 PM
    That's it - Islam is true!

    I mean there is no way that Muhammad just looked around and thought all creatures need a male and female.


    Cheesy
    ...
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #48 - April 14, 2010, 07:18 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on April 13, 2010, 09:55 PM
    If I had written "evolved" as a potential Quranic verse it would have had scientific credibility.



    Sorry, I was obviously at cross purposes with you there.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #49 - April 14, 2010, 07:40 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 13, 2010, 08:45 PM
    Thanks - interesting article.

    It says "However, the first animals were not bilaterians."  This article only applies to bilateral modern animals = bilaterians.  No surprise then that they are bilateral  Wink. 

    Also what about disabled people, why are they are also ignored as one of Allahs creatures in the quran?

    Its interesting though that most organs are repeated on the other half, I cant see any practical reason why this should be so  - I wonder if this was just 'laziness' on evolutions part.

    Also I did not see a reason given for liver not having its mirror image on the left hand side?

    I think the unpaired liver clue is in the second to last para. And isn't it strange that the liver is just about the only organ that can regenerate itself after certain types of damage: for instance, the amount of warfarin damage repair and limitation that some popns. of rats have evolved. They can grow a brand new liver in a few weeks; faster than Warfarin can destroy it.
    As for evolution: It's survival of the fittest remember, so whatever trait began to dominate at a certain point in Earth history (ie increasing tendency to pair organs) is still fitted to be most viable today.
    Perhaps there's never been any evolutionary value in paired livers over single versions. Or maybe we just can't detect the join yet.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #50 - April 15, 2010, 03:19 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 10:05 PM
    That's it - Islam is true!

    I mean there is no way that Muhammad just looked around and thought all creatures need a male and female.


    I'm just glad that Muhammad was pointing out that all things had inside them this "code" that is a deoxyribonucleic acid that form base pairs.  I'm am happy that based on Muhammad's incredible revelation that Islamic scientists had known about  DNA hundreds of years before anyone else and then used modern science to indeed vindicate the prophecy long written down to describe DNA perfectly, instead of a non Muslim named Johannes Friedrich Miescher in 1869, and then Muslim apologists "changing" the interpretation of the scripture to match modern science after the accepted interpretation had been proved wrong.  Because that just would be just wrong.  
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #51 - April 15, 2010, 09:59 AM
    Quote from: deusvult on April 15, 2010, 03:19 AM
    I'm just glad that Muhammad was pointing out that all things had inside them this "code" that is a deoxyribonucleic acid that form base pairs.  I'm am happy that based on Muhammad's incredible revelation that Islamic scientists had known about  DNA hundreds of years before anyone else and then used modern science to indeed vindicate the prophecy long written down to describe DNA perfectly, instead of a non Muslim named Johannes Friedrich Miescher in 1869, and then Muslim apologists "changing" the interpretation of the scripture to match modern science after the accepted interpretation had been proved wrong.  Because that just would be just wrong.  



    lol  Wink
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #52 - April 15, 2010, 10:09 AM
    Obviously all things are made in pairs. That's why we have two noses, two hearts and two sets of genitals. Well I do anyway. Can't speak for you lot. Tongue
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #53 - April 15, 2010, 01:01 PM
    pair as in the left hand side of our body is a copy (pair) of our right hand side
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  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #54 - April 15, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on April 15, 2010, 01:01 PM
    pair as in the left hand side of our body is a copy (pair) of our right hand side


    Appendix isn't on both sides.
    And what about the laryngeal nerve which on one side takes a short direct route but on the other side takes a long indirect route.


    Bah, it's crap Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Chromosomes in quran?
     Reply #55 - April 15, 2010, 01:29 PM
    yep
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