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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why is there something rather than nothing?

 (Read 19246 times)
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  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #30 - April 13, 2010, 02:31 PM
    I suppose your question is more of 'why are there apples (known things or 'somethingness'), instead of all oranges(unknow things or 'nothingness')'?

    Good question, but untill we know more about each individually, appless (matter, light etc - which we do know a lot about and are gaining more knowledge on) and oranges (what do we know about 'nothing'? other than it's the lack of something) and their origins we can't say why, until we have some formula saying this is how the universe has evolved with the preference of somethingness at certain boundaries/with certain parameters give rise to matter, light, energy w/e and at other parameter values you have the lack of such things. I think it's all mathematically accessible (maybe, maybe i'm just babbling). Smiley
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #31 - April 13, 2010, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on April 13, 2010, 02:26 PM
    But as they say, tat tvam asi.


    What does that mean, Zebedee?
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #32 - April 13, 2010, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on April 13, 2010, 02:30 PM
    If I could could speak goldfish and explain to my goldfish that the water in his tank comes from a tap and that tap is an endpoint of a network of pipes and that water comes from reservoirs that are filled from rain water that comes from the clouds that the clouds get from passing over bodies of water and that some of the water is recycled from piss that was in people's bladders because they drank drinks that were made from water that came from the tap, he would probably be really confused.
    Just like the questions you ask are beyond my comprehension.


    You old mystic - you!
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #33 - April 13, 2010, 02:34 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 01:44 PM
    This was a serious response Zed - what if God is everything and wanted to experience everything? What if we are all bits of God? Whatever God is?


    I think something like that. I think that if evolution and time are infinate then our potential is infinate. So it is quite possible for man to advance to the stage where man can create man. Or perhaps that has already happened.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #34 - April 13, 2010, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: stardust on April 13, 2010, 02:31 PM
    I suppose your question is more of 'why are there apples (known things or 'somethingness'), instead of all oranges(unknow things or 'nothingness')'?

    Good question, but untill we know more about each individually, appless (matter, light etc - which we do know a lot about and are gaining more knowledge on) and oranges (what do we know about 'nothing'? other than it's the lack of something) and their origins we can't say why, until we have some formula saying this is how the universe has evolved with the preference of somethingness at certain boundaries/with certain parameters give rise to matter, light, energy w/e and at other parameter values you have the lack of such things. I think it's all mathematically accessible (maybe, maybe i'm just babbling). Smiley


    You never babble - and I'm still in love with your avatar   Kiss
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #35 - April 13, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on April 13, 2010, 02:34 PM
    I think something like that. I think that if evolution and time are infinate then our potential is infinate. So it is quite possible for man to advance to the stage where man can create man. Or perhaps that has already happened.


    I think that there is something beautiful about the thought that one is both the Nazi and the Jew - and all this adding up to some sort of amazing consciousness.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #36 - April 13, 2010, 02:43 PM
    Quote
    I think that there is something beautiful about the thought that one is both the Nazi and the Jew

    I like that. I will steal that.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #37 - April 13, 2010, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 02:35 PM
    You never babble - and I'm still in love with your avatar   Kiss


    Aww, but not with me?  Wink
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #38 - April 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
    The reason why we exist and the universe exists is a Hikmah from Allah (swt).

    Our only reason for existence can be summed in up Surah 51:56

    "And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." (51:56)

    There is the answer dance
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #39 - April 13, 2010, 03:40 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 02:32 PM
    What does that mean, Zebedee?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_tvam_asi

    It's sanskrit for 'thou art that' or 'you are it'.

    Basically, it means that every thing is a part of the universe, and therefore part of God, as the universe is a manifestation of God's nature.

    And so, since we are also parts of the universe, we are it. The Self, or Atman, as Hindus call it, is simply manifested in a different way in every individual.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #40 - April 13, 2010, 03:49 PM
    And if man created man then he would likely see that mortality is a waste of knowledge and human development, so immortal souls may have been developed.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #41 - April 13, 2010, 03:50 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on April 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
    The reason why we exist and the universe exists is a Hikmah from Allah (swt).

    Our only reason for existence can be summed in up Surah 51:56

    "And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." (51:56)

    There is the answer dance


    I do find it rather odd that a god would think that he has nothing better to do with infinite time than to create a load of slaves to worship him, about 99% of whom end up not worshipping him anyway, despite his creating them for that purpose.

    I mean, I imagine it'd get pretty boring to be constantly reassured by your fan-boys of just how great you are, despite the fact that you deserve absolutely no credit for your omniscience and omnipotence anyway because you only possess those attributes by some extremely improbable fluke of metaphysics.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #42 - April 13, 2010, 04:34 PM
    Forget about silly concepts of God. Look where we've come from and where we are. We come from single cell beings and developed into men and women. Why would we believe our further development will be any less drastic.
    A=single cell organizm
    B= Billion years of evolution

    A*B=C

    C=modern man.

    C*B should equal a being as many times greater than modern man as we are greater than a single cell organizm. Lets call than D

    D*B=E E*B=F and so on and so on.

    There is no reason to believe that we can not farm solar systems that can sustain life.

    There is no reason to believe that we cannot preserve and transfer our consciousness into other lifeforms.

    We could develop to the point where we are (for a lack of a better term) Gods.

    If time is infinite in both directions then this could already have happened.

    God is man. Who else would bother to create us?

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #43 - April 13, 2010, 04:49 PM
    i don't know.. but we will find out..
    how exciting to see we have not yet reached our limits and there is much more we need to know..
    if we knew everything we needed to know.. like any religion would suggest all you need is faith in god .. who would bother searching, researching, and actually coming up with any useful knowledge..
    thank god for atheism...  propellor head
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9vdUjuWxc
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #44 - April 13, 2010, 06:02 PM
    Well if no idea is too silly I'm going to argue that 'nothingness' does not exist. It can't do. There cannot BE 'nothing'. Maybe what we perceive as 'nothingness' is really something too. So why is there 'something'? Because there's no alternative.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #45 - April 13, 2010, 07:48 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 10:25 AM
    Because nothing wanted to experience something.

    So we now have both something and nothing.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #46 - April 13, 2010, 09:15 PM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on April 13, 2010, 04:34 PM
    Forget about silly concepts of God. Look where we've come from and where we are.


    `...two large tears came rolling down her cheeks.

    `Oh, don't go on like that!' cried the poor Queen, wringing her hands in despair. `Consider what a great girl you are. Consider what a long way you've come...'
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #47 - April 13, 2010, 09:52 PM
    Quote from: stardust on April 13, 2010, 03:06 PM
    Aww, but not with me?  Wink


    Well obviously I love you too! (I'm the guy who loves everyone remember!  grin12)
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #48 - April 14, 2010, 02:40 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 13, 2010, 09:52 PM
    Well obviously I love you too! (I'm the guy who loves everyone remember!  grin12)

     far away hug
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #49 - April 14, 2010, 10:00 AM
    Quote from: stardust on April 13, 2010, 02:31 PM
    I suppose your question is more of 'why are there apples (known things or 'somethingness'), instead of all oranges(unknow things or 'nothingness')'?

    Good question, but untill we know more about each individually, appless (matter, light etc - which we do know a lot about and are gaining more knowledge on) and oranges (what do we know about 'nothing'? other than it's the lack of something) and their origins we can't say why, until we have some formula saying this is how the universe has evolved with the preference of somethingness at certain boundaries/with certain parameters give rise to matter, light, energy w/e and at other parameter values you have the lack of such things. I think it's all mathematically accessible (maybe, maybe i'm just babbling). Smiley

     Bob if you could speak goldfish then I think your goldfish would have articulated his desire that you lay off the acid  grin12

    Actually I like that analogy and may well use it and claim it as my own,then sue you for plagirism  Wink
    According to the polls only 1.6 % of Americans are athiests. So what gives you the right to call the other 80% morons?'
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #50 - April 14, 2010, 10:03 AM
    Quote from: Kaffir Latte on April 14, 2010, 10:00 AM
    Bob if you could speak goldfish then I think your goldfish would have articulated his desire that you lay off the acid  grin12

     Cheesy JOTM nomination coming up.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #51 - April 14, 2010, 10:18 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 13, 2010, 09:20 AM
    Well it may be indirectly accessible to us, depending on which of the current wild speculations theories turns out to be correct.

    For instance there is the prediction made by Quantum Loop Gravity:


    Or there is the theory about twin universes existing concurrently:



    All these speculations are fascinating, to be sure. But, in the vain of what I said, I could argue they are merely inferences which can't arrive at knowledge of what 'existed'.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #52 - April 14, 2010, 10:25 AM
    Well given that there isn't even any proof for either of them yet I'd agree they can provide bugger all in the way of actual knowledge.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #53 - April 14, 2010, 10:27 AM
    Well, quite sceptical as to whether that's possible even in principle, unless of course 'everything that exists' is still a very different place to what we understand.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #54 - April 14, 2010, 10:31 AM
    Why is there something rather than everything?
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #55 - April 14, 2010, 10:35 AM
    I see what you did there, Ttaloc.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #56 - April 14, 2010, 10:47 AM
    Of course the whole premise of this thread rests on the assumption that "nothing" is the default state. We don't have any evidence of that. Maybe "something" is the default state and "nothing" is an aberration.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #57 - April 14, 2010, 11:02 AM
    It's really an ontological question.
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #58 - April 14, 2010, 12:35 PM
    Well the whole idea of ontology is to argue that God exists. Haven't seen much mention of God in this thread, and the universe appears to exist whether he does or not. So I'd disagree with you on this.

    My point was that the way the thread title is phrased shows that people implicitly assume that "nothing"(whatever that may be) would be the default state. We don't know that for a fact. It's an assumption that seems to make sense to us, but that's all. It may be incorrect.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?
     Reply #59 - April 14, 2010, 12:36 PM
    Quote
    Bob if you could speak goldfish then I think your goldfish would have articulated his desire that you lay off the acid  

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    You have my vote.  Afro
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
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