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Theme Changer

 Topic: Who is still muslim?

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  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #30 - May 14, 2010, 10:51 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 14, 2010, 10:46 AM
    When I was a doubting Muslim looking to save my faith I went to Islamic sites - like ummah.com and MPACUK.

    Though they only helped confirm the fears and thoughts I was trying to find answers for.




    What were you questions?
    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #31 - May 14, 2010, 10:53 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on May 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
    LOL

    you're awesome dude, let's have a drink sometime, with Hassan and Abu Yunus


    When I visit Britain, sometime in the future.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #32 - May 14, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Quote from: debunker on May 14, 2010, 10:47 AM
    look Khan, others here might find you amusing, but billy has very thin patience for people like you, who are here to "save" others... I hope your skin is thick enough for the things he'll have to say to you.


    Just as long as it is a discussion i dont mind! if he will get silly i will ignore it!

    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #33 - May 14, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Good God! Khan is still trying to play the savior!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #34 - May 14, 2010, 10:57 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 10:40 AM
    no i have come to save!!


    I have such a problem with this whole idea of saving - though I'm not making fun of your intention. I think on one level it is a genuine desire to help others/share the truth you ardently believe.

    But there is much more to this "Saving" that is problematic.

    For a start, why do people need to be 'saved'? What will happen to them if they are not saved? What are they being saved from?

    And that's without getting into subconscious motives for "saving" people that are more about the person doing the saving than they are to do with the person being saved Wink
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #35 - May 14, 2010, 11:00 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 10:51 AM
    What were you questions?


    Well this will be quite boring for most here - and even me - as I have thrashed them to death.

    But on top of the list is Hell.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #36 - May 14, 2010, 11:05 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 10:54 AM
    Just as long as it is a discussion i dont mind! if he will get silly i will ignore it!


    Why do you want to save us Johnny?

    Are you disturbed that people have left Islam, and rejected it? By saving 'us', do you think you are also saving Islam?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #37 - May 14, 2010, 11:09 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 14, 2010, 11:00 AM
    Well this will be quite boring for most here - and even me - as I have thrashed them to death.

    But on top of the list is Hell.


    And your question about hell?
    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #38 - May 14, 2010, 11:11 AM
    Quote
    Well this will be quite boring for most here - and even me - as I have thrashed them to death.

    But on top of the list is Hell.


    Well, I think that came later... but your doubts (I think) were intiated when you considered the Problem of Evil...

    In fact, I *think* the reason you're not a Deist, for example, is the fact that any God you dream up still cannot solve the Problem of Evil... if there's a Creator, then why does He allow (even severe) suffering in this world? I really think that's the reason you reject the very idea of God altogeather and you think it makes no sense at all.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #39 - May 14, 2010, 11:13 AM
    Quote from: billy on May 14, 2010, 11:05 AM
    Why do you want to save us Johnny?

    Are you disturbed that people have left Islam, and rejected it? By saving 'us', do you think you are also saving Islam?




    Nope... by saving "you", he's adding worth to *himself*! He'd get this false sense of achievement... That's what I hate about those wanna-be saviors... it's really all about themselves, in the end.

    ooops... sorry for intervening again, billy!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #40 - May 14, 2010, 11:15 AM
    debunker- you seem to be really opinionated!! and like to come to conclusions witout proper study, how do you know my motivations!
    There is no God but Allah(swt) and Muhammad(saw) is his messenger.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #41 - May 14, 2010, 11:19 AM
    Hi Debunker! I am glad that you are back. Have you submitted the disertation yet?
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #42 - May 14, 2010, 11:22 AM
    yep... defense is in a week! But I'll be pretty busy for about a month, wrapping things up, preparing to leave the US and go back to my country...

    thanks for the welcome back!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #43 - May 14, 2010, 11:23 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 11:15 AM
    debunker- you seem to be really opinionated!! and like to come to conclusions witout proper study, how do you know my motivations!


    ok... I apologize to you too.. please do carry on...
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #44 - May 14, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 11:15 AM
    debunker- you seem to be really opinionated!! and like to come to conclusions witout proper study, how do you know my motivations!



    Hey, Johnny, tell us about your motivations yourself then!

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #45 - May 14, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 09:34 AM
    Hi are there any muslims here?

    Well I see you have met Debunker, there's Abuyunus who's a liberal Muslim and a few other Muslims who dont post as regularly..
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  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #46 - May 14, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Quote from: billy on May 14, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Hey, Johnny, tell us about your motivations yourself then!

    Most true Muslims wont have the balls to answer that question.  My guess is that they have doubts, and want to see what its like on the other side and see if they feel more comfortable (intellectually, ethically & socially) with one group as opposed to the other.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #47 - May 14, 2010, 11:29 AM
    or the fact that the hidden desire of saving murtads from 'Azaab-un-Naar' by making them re-embrace Islam will give them plus points in the eyes of Allah.  whistling2
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #48 - May 14, 2010, 11:32 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 14, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Most true Muslims wont have the balls to answer that question.  My guess is that they have doubts, and want to see what its like on the other side and see if they feel more comfortable (intellectually, ethically & socially) with one group as opposed to the other.



    Quote
    or the fact that the hidden desire of saving murtads from 'Azaab-un-Naar' by making them re-embrace Islam will give them plus points in the eyes of Allah


    Yep, its one of these two.

    One of them a cause for empathy, the other a sign of the delusional  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #49 - May 14, 2010, 11:34 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on May 14, 2010, 11:29 AM
    or the fact that the hidden desire of saving murtads from 'Azaab-un-Naar' by making them re-embrace Islam will give them plus points in the eyes of Allah.  whistling2

    I dont think this is true in the case of Johnny, although he may justify it to Allah in this fashion.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #50 - May 14, 2010, 11:42 AM
    hello JK, i is a fellow Muslim. I think i initialy came on here just because there is no reason why Muslims/ex-Muslims can not be friends (i think this is important given the death for apostasy views  a lot of Muslims hold). although we  may have very different views and interpretations of Islam - honest and open debate is always a good thing - so this is a good place to be. i guess i stuck around because i find the discussions/people here interesting. in addition since i am not an orthodox Muslim i find some of the views very useful, and on occasion, even enlightening with regards to my own position.

    you sound like a nice guy so i hope you will stick around and make more contributions. ps don't worry about debunker - he wants to exterminate all Muslims except for himself  Cheesy
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #51 - May 14, 2010, 11:54 AM
    Oh, I almost forgot The Tailor who is a sufi muslim..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #52 - May 14, 2010, 11:57 AM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on May 14, 2010, 11:42 AM
    you sound like a nice guy so i hope you will stick around and make more contributions. ps don't worry about debunker - he wants to exterminate all Muslims except for himself  Cheesy


     Cheesy not true, in fact, I was trying to convince some of the few Muslims at FFI to come here, remember?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #53 - May 14, 2010, 12:00 PM
    Debunker doesn't fuck around  cool2

    DB

    You believe in Theory of Evolution. How do you square that with Islam and Creationism?

  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #54 - May 14, 2010, 12:01 PM
     Smiley wellcome back bro, and good luck with your phd viva.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #55 - May 14, 2010, 12:10 PM
    Quote from: debunker on May 14, 2010, 11:11 AM
    Well, I think that came later... but your doubts (I think) were intiated when you considered the Problem of Evil...

    In fact, I *think* the reason you're not a Deist, for example, is the fact that any God you dream up still cannot solve the Problem of Evil... if there's a Creator, then why does He allow (even severe) suffering in this world? I really think that's the reason you reject the very idea of God altogeather and you think it makes no sense at all.


    You are a very perceptive chap - I don't think even I have analysed my reasons that well - or at least not understood them properly - but yes I think you have a point. It is at least part of my problem with the existence of a God, particularly one who keeps repeating how merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.. he is, ad nauseum. My problem is that we must take his word for it - and discount my observations - and take on faith he has a damn good reason.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #56 - May 14, 2010, 12:15 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on May 14, 2010, 11:54 AM
    Oh, I almost forgot The Tailor who is a sufi muslim..


    Hassan1 post quite often.
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #57 - May 14, 2010, 12:21 PM
    Quote from: JohnnyKhan on May 14, 2010, 11:09 AM
    And your question about hell?


    Hell = Eternal Torture.

    It's indefensible, contradicts reason, mercy and justice. It leads to fear as a motivation for submission  and obedience - appealing to baser instincts and giving no value to reason - the mind God gave us - which although limited - is all we've got! If it isn't sufficient then whose fault is that?
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #58 - May 14, 2010, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 14, 2010, 12:10 PM
    You are a very perceptive chap - I don't think even I have analysed my reasons that well - or at least not understood them properly - but yes I think you have a point. It is at least part of my problem with the existence of a God, particularly one who keeps repeating how merciful, compassionate, forgiving etc.. he is, ad nauseum. My problem is that we must take his word for it - and discount my observations - and take on faith he has a damn good reason.


    And no other god, even one you dream up, can solve the Problem of Evil! To you, it would seem that if God exists, any God at all, then He must be a *monster* for allowing all this suffering to go around in the world, and you don't want to worship a monster! That's why you can't committ to Deism, for example.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Who is still muslim?
     Reply #59 - May 14, 2010, 12:38 PM
    I dont think we should commit to anything until we have proof. At best we should remain ambivalent, what you say Debunker?
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