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Theme Changer

 Topic: Peace, All

 (Read 193923 times)
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  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #960 - June 23, 2010, 03:46 PM

    The ones that don't obviously slap the Qur'an across the face for one...

    So your not an orthodox muslim as you originally claimed.  You dont follow the sahih hadith in their entirety, dont believe its ok to hit your wife, you dont believe any harm should come to gays or apostates in this life, you're a believe "in live & let live" and draw pictures to make a living - how exactly are you an orthodox muslim?  

    By our definitions of Muslim on COEM, you would probably be considered as an apologist?

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #961 - June 23, 2010, 03:47 PM

    yes, rasheed, the sun (as well as our solar system) does in fact orbit the outer part of the milky way.  But the SUN DOES NOT sink into a muddy pond or whatever, NOR does the sun REVOLVE around the earth as the moon does.  Nor do either of them swim!  And they DO "catch up" to each other in lunar and solar eclipses.  There is NOTHING miraculous about any of this as written in the koran!  


    Of course the Qur'an is full of raw, flowery metaphor as well as statements of actual true facts regarding the creation.  Only an enemy of Islam would sweep the lot into a bag and try to use the whole of it to prove the Book is false.

    This is a very despicable and slimy tactic.  Forgive me if I do not take it seriously.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #962 - June 23, 2010, 03:48 PM

    Oh?

    The Qur'an came down as a Mercy for all of mankind to use in order to get on the Righteous Path so we all may have the chance to achieve paradise.  In the end, I will stand naked before my Lord and I will have to answer for what I decided to do based on my own understanding of the sacred Scripture.  I will not be able to take "Sheihk Abu-bu" with me and tell the Lord that it is his fault for leading me astray because I hung on every one of his proclamations about the Qur'an as if they came from Allah Himself.  Sheikh Abu-bu is a human being just like me who makes mistakes.    As you all have been kind enough to (continuously) point out, there are already an uncomfortable too many humans in history standing inbetween me and this Qur'an I hold.  It will not benefit me to add any more of them.

    It is in my best interest to puzzle out the Message for myself.  That's where my God-given intellect and reason benefits me the most.



    actually you are wrong. Your own God tell you in the book you claim to understand

    " So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not."

    I find it hilarious that you consider yourself a learned man of the scripture when you cannot even understand rudimentary arabic.

    you seem to think that your understanding is better than those of the scholars when in reality you would be laughed at by 99% of muslims

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #963 - June 23, 2010, 03:50 PM

    I will not be able to take "Sheihk Abu-bu"

    So you can see how religion (christianity & Islam when it comes to the shape of the earth) has led us astray & hindered science?  Or do you really believe the Quran is not mubeen?

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  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #964 - June 23, 2010, 03:50 PM

    Of course the Qur'an is full of raw, flowery metaphor as well as statements of factual true facts regarding the creation.  Only an enemy of Islam would sweep the lot into a bag and try to use the whole of it to prove the Book is false.

    This is a very despicable and slimy tactic.  Forgive me if I do not take it seriously.

    That is really slime and slippery  and you are right Mrasheed there. I agree with you that  Quran is full raw, flowery metaphor., but what factual true facts you have in it regarding the creation??

    Did you read that from Adnan Oktar??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #965 - June 23, 2010, 03:51 PM

    So your not an orthodox muslim as you originally claimed.  You dont follow the sahih hadith in their entirety, dont believe its ok to hit your wife, you dont believe any harm should come to gays or apostates in this life, you're a believe "in live & let live" and draw pictures to make a living - how exactly are you an orthodox muslim?  

    By our definitions of Muslim on COEM, you would probably be considered as an apologist?


    "Orthodox" in the sense of seeking to be closer to the Muslims contemporary with Abu Bakr a week after the prophet left earth.  Not in the sense of "whatever the mainstream think."  There are many mainstream "Islamic" beliefs that will obviously send me straight to hell.  It is in my best interest to puzzle it all out for myself.  At least the MOST IMPORTANT fundamental parts of the message.  For example:  What are the best good deeds to do?  What are the 'major' sins to avoid so I can have the lesser ones blanket forgiven?  Etcetera.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #966 - June 23, 2010, 03:55 PM

    So you can see how religion (christianity & Islam when it comes to the shape of the earth) has led us astray & hindered science?


    No, how is that possibly "religion" that led us astray???  Because one or a handful of scientist dumb@sses, who just happened to be either Muslim or Christian, came up with a later-proven-false theory, that means "the religion did it?"

    btw the "clot" issue is a matter of interpretation by interpreters. 

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #967 - June 23, 2010, 03:56 PM

    Yeah sure, so is the sperm shooting from between my ribs and backbones.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #968 - June 23, 2010, 03:57 PM

    The modern Qur'an was compiled in its current form in the prophet's presence with the aid of his adopted son Zaid.


    Can you please provide evidence for your statement. Everyone in this thread had cited quran, hadith or an islamic source EXCEPT YOU THE "MUSLIM"

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #969 - June 23, 2010, 03:59 PM

    actually you are wrong. Your own God tell you in the book you claim to understand

    " So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not."


    What is the actual context of that Ayah, DigDug?

    I find it hilarious that you consider yourself a learned man of the scripture when you cannot even understand rudimentary arabic.


    The point is I am able to do the best I can with what Allah blessed me with.  You sound like a bigoted Arab.  Should I not even TRY to be a Muslim until I completely master Arabic?  You are an idiot.

    you seem to think that your understanding is better than those of the scholars when in reality you would be laughed at by 99% of muslims


    I think it hilarious that you think your opinion on any of this means anything to me.  Enjoy your stay in La-La Land though.  Peace.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #970 - June 23, 2010, 04:01 PM

    MRasheed please read this http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #971 - June 23, 2010, 04:02 PM

    But when you call me insnae for saying certain things...


    You insulted me several times first.  You are a fool if you think I'm going to continue to read that stuff and not eventually get irritated with you.  

    Peace.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #972 - June 23, 2010, 04:06 PM

    Can you please provide evidence for your statement. Everyone in this thread had cited quran, hadith or an islamic source EXCEPT YOU THE "MUSLIM"


    Well considering your "Islamic source" was STILL complete and utter bullsh*t, what difference does it make?  I'll just let it float.

    You mad?

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #973 - June 23, 2010, 04:09 PM

    Well considering your "Islamic source" was STILL complete and utter bullsh*t, what difference does it make?  I'll just let it float.

    You mad?


    So it's a lie? You're posting lies?

    Please post a source. Don't be rude. You state something like that you need to back it up.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #974 - June 23, 2010, 04:09 PM

    What is the actual context of that Ayah, DigDug?


    Why don't you look at the tafsir of the ayah? "allah" tells us that we are supposed to ask the scholars if we don't know something. I would consider you to know nothin because you can't even read the quran.

    In fact, you need a scholar to translate it for you. lol.

    Quote
    The point is I am able to do the best I can with what Allah blessed me with.


    No. you are wrong you are not doing your best. you are sticking your head in the sand because you don't like what the people who actually understand the religion (scholars) have to tell you.

    Quote
     You sound like a bigoted Arab.  Should I not even TRY to be a Muslim until I completely master Arabic?  You are an idiot.


    I'm a bigoted arab because I accused you of not being able to read the quran because you don't understand arabic? That makes total sense.

    You should definitely try to be a muslim but you shouldn't try and tell the scholars they don't understand the quran when you CANNOT EVEN READ IT YOURSELF.

    seriously who is the idiot here?


    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #975 - June 23, 2010, 04:11 PM

    So it's a lie? You're posting lies?

    Please post a source. Don't be rude. You state something like that you need to back it up.

    +1
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #976 - June 23, 2010, 04:27 PM

    Please post a source. Don't be rude. You state something like that you need to back it up.


    I was wrong, it wasn't Zayd his son, but Zayd ibn Thabit his personal scribe.  It's in Haykal.

    I wasn't being rude in general to all of you, it's just that this thing with DigDug is getting ugly.

    I should probably just put him on mute.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #977 - June 23, 2010, 04:30 PM

    I was wrong, it wasn't Zayd his son, but Zayd ibn Thabit his personal scribe.  It's in Haykal.

    I wasn't being rude in general to all of you, it's just that this thing with DigDug is getting ugly.

    I should probably just put him on mute.


    The Quran was not compiled/completed during Muhammad's life time.

    EDIT: I mean the Quran we have is Uthmanic Codex. It was collected in book form 20 years after his death. It was not completed during Muhammad's life in book form.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #978 - June 23, 2010, 04:30 PM

    Why don't you look at the tafsir of the ayah? "allah" tells us that we are supposed to ask the scholars if we don't know something. I would consider you to know nothin because you can't even read the quran.

    In fact, you need a scholar to translate it for you. lol.

    No. you are wrong you are not doing your best. you are sticking your head in the sand because you don't like what the people who actually understand the religion (scholars) have to tell you.

    I'm a bigoted arab because I accused you of not being able to read the quran because you don't understand arabic? That makes total sense.

    You should definitely try to be a muslim but you shouldn't try and tell the scholars they don't understand the quran when you CANNOT EVEN READ IT YOURSELF.

    seriously who is the idiot here?




    what?

    I'm an asshat.
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #979 - June 23, 2010, 04:39 PM

    MRasheed,

    May I suggest something?

    You're new here, but you have to understand that everyone is moved by their biases and will accept whatever (contradictory) sources they find to confirm their biases.

    Take for example ex-Shia members here. They keep shouting Islam this, Islam that based on *Sunni* accounts. It's funny, but they use Sunni sources to confirm their disbelief in Islam...

    I hope this example clearly explains to you the bias issue. So just relax, and try to chill out.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #980 - June 23, 2010, 04:44 PM

    I was wrong, it wasn't Zayd his son, but Zayd ibn Thabit his personal scribe.  It's in Haykal.

    I wasn't being rude in general to all of you, it's just that this thing with DigDug is getting ugly.

    I should probably just put him on mute.

    So you accept the Quran was written & authenticated by man?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #981 - June 23, 2010, 04:45 PM

    MRasheed,

    May I suggest something?

    You're new here, but you have to understand that everyone is moved by their biases and will accept whatever (contradictory) sources they find to confirm their biases.

    Take for example ex-Shia members here. They keep shouting Islam this, Islam that based on *Sunni* accounts. It's funny, but they use Sunni sources to confirm their disbelief in Islam...

    I hope this example clearly explains to you the bias issue and just relax, and try to chill out.


     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

    1. Let's see, Quran can be debunked on its own. Shia Islam can be debunked on its own. Shia Islam hadiths can be debunked on their own and there are many hadiths that match the Sunni hadiths.

    2. Shia Islam is Islam. Sunni sources, Shia sources? If I want to learn Islam shouldn't I also focus on Sunni sources? Or should I be an ex-shia atheist cautious of Sunni sources?  

    3. Contradictory accounts is that my fault? I find it incredible you like to point the bias thing yet never mention your self. You should have said INCLUDING MYSELF in your post. You pick and choose as well. To make Islam real, To make Muhammad not the person he seems to be. To dispel contradictions in the Quran.

    You really make a person weary Debunker seriously. I think I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to discuss religion anymore with anybody. Since you've been here how have you changed your mindset? Of things you've previously held true? And yet I'm the one with bias?

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #982 - June 23, 2010, 04:47 PM

    MRasheed,

    May I suggest something?

    You're new here, but you have to understand that everyone is moved by their biases and will accept whatever (contradictory) sources they find to confirm their biases.

    Take for example ex-Shia members here. They keep shouting Islam this, Islam that based on *Sunni* accounts. It's funny, but they use Sunni sources to confirm their disbelief in Islam...

    I hope this example clearly explains to you the bias issue. So just relax, and try to chill out.


    Get over yourself. Those of who who are ex-MUSLIMS and ex-Shias, reject, challenge, mock and see the fiction in all branches of Islam.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #983 - June 23, 2010, 04:48 PM

    Get over yourself. Those of who who are ex-MUSLIMS and ex-Shias, reject, challenge, mock and see the fiction in all branches of Islam.


    +1
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #984 - June 23, 2010, 04:48 PM

    Quote from: DigDug
    actually you are wrong. Your own God tell you in the book you claim to understand

    " So ask of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], if you know not."


    Quote from: MRasheed
    What is the actual context of that Ayah, DigDug?


    Why don't you look at the tafsir of the ayah? "allah" tells us that we are supposed to ask the scholars if we don't know something.


    Do I need to ask the scholars of the Torah and New Testament if I have my own copies of both?  Was He talking to me or to the illiterate Arabs of the 8th Century who did not know the Torah and New Testament by heart?

    No. you are wrong you are not doing your best. you are sticking your head in the sand because you don't like what the people who actually understand the religion (scholars) have to tell you.


    Let me explain something to you so you will understand the nature of our current argument from my point of view:  You are an unrepentant Transgressor of the Faith of Al-Islam who, according to the Qur'an, will experience a pain so great on the Day of Judgment, it is likened to burning in a lake of fire for all of eternity.  One of the ways you got to that point is the way in which you have studied the religion you were supposed to be following and the conclusions your particular mind decided to come to about it, and you honestly think that I, as a God-fearing Muslim, am going to take ANYTHING that you say as some kind of at-face-value truth about Islam?  I really don't care about 1.) your opinions about Islam 2.) your opinions about the "true nature" of "correct scholarship" in Islam 3.) your opinions about how I live my Islam.

    I suggest you not continue along in that way.  Everything you personally think about Islam will send me to hell, so I am not taking anything you say as a truth or something I should aspire to emulate.  

    I'm a bigoted arab because I accused you of not being able to read the quran because you don't understand arabic? That makes total sense.


    No, I accused you of having the traits of a bigoted Arab because you said, "I find it hilarious that you consider yourself a learned man of the scripture..." because I'm not fluent in Arabic.  Implying that I'm not allowed to read or learn anything from the interpretations at all.

    You should definitely try to be a muslim but you shouldn't try and tell the scholars they don't understand the quran when you CANNOT EVEN READ IT YOURSELF.


    Tell me: the ancient Muslim scholar who proclaimed the world was flat.

    Could he speak fluent Arabic and read the Qur'an in its original state?


  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #985 - June 23, 2010, 04:50 PM

    Muslims... perpetuating Islamic sectarianism even within Ex-muslims. Cheesy

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #986 - June 23, 2010, 04:55 PM

    The Quran was not compiled/completed during Muhammad's life time.


    Nonsense.  Why wouldn't it have been?

    I mean the Quran we have is Uthmanic Codex. It was collected in book form 20 years after his death. It was not completed during Muhammad's life in book form.


    Nonsense.  To imply that the "Uthmanic Codex" was somehow radically different from the Qur'an that the prophet recited and that Uthman, son-in-law of the prophet, a member of his intimate inner circle and one of his closest companions, didn't know the Revelation as Revealed by the messenger is an absolutely absurd nonsense idea from the adversary himself.

    PLEASE don't bring that obvious foolishness up again to me.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #987 - June 23, 2010, 04:57 PM

    I hope this example clearly explains to you the bias issue. So just relax, and try to chill out.


    Okay.

    Thank you.

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #988 - June 23, 2010, 04:59 PM

    So you accept the Quran was written & authenticated by man?


    lol

    By the Holy Prophet of Allah, sure.  Am I to think that his powers were broken or something at the time Zayd help him to put them in their proper order?

  • Re: Peace, All
     Reply #989 - June 23, 2010, 05:00 PM

    Get over yourself. Those of who who are ex-MUSLIMS and ex-Shias, reject, challenge, mock and see the fiction in all branches of Islam.


    Oh yeah? That would be reasonable, but if I were a Shia rejecting Islam, I would cite Shia sources. When I was at ShiaChat, members there believed that 98% of Sunni Hadiths/sources are forgeries. So I find it a bit odd that you'd cite Sunni Hadiths as the *true* Islam. Being an ex-Shia you should believe that Shiaism is the true Islam and attack Islam based on that.

    UNLESS now, that you're an atheist, you believe Sunnism is the true Islam? Is that what you're saying?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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