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 Topic: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK

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  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #90 - June 19, 2010, 05:29 PM
    Quote
    Copernicus


    lol

    i'd love to have Q as a mate who i knew had my back  yes
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #91 - June 19, 2010, 05:34 PM
    Grin Indeed
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #92 - June 19, 2010, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 05:11 PM
    You want to criminalize someone expressing their opinion about a group of people because you find it morally objectionable

    No, not because I find it morally objectionable, but because it will increase prejudice and hate against me based on my ethnicity. Hence, there will be real consequences for me to face as the result of legalized hate speech

    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 05:11 PM
    The concept of "freedom of speech" as a human right is based on a deonotological ethical framework, but you are forcing it into a consequentialist, utilitarian framework. The fact that you are framing this issue in terms of "what benefits" such freedom of speech brings shows that you truly don't understand the concept.

    If your freedom tramples on the safety of someone else, you don't get that freedom. You can have the freedom of religion, but if your religion asks you to sacrifice babies, then your freedom of religion means jack shit compared to the safety and well being of the baby.

    In the same way: I'm all for freedom of speech, except when this freedom is used to increase prejudice and hate against a particular minority group. Its not the same thing as considering something 'offensive' and 'morally objectionable', its that there are real consequences suffered by a minority group as a result of your freedom.

    I find it amusing that you think its unethical/immoral to not allow someone to spread hate speech against blacks or south asians, but you don't consider it immoral that a black/south asian guy might be judged and stereotyped, and hated just on the basis of his looks as a result of that legalized hate speech.

    P.S You need some anger management therapy.
    P.P.S What do you have to lose by telling us your identity? If your picture is already in the newspapers, what do you have to lose by telling a guy in Pakistan what your name is?
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #93 - June 19, 2010, 08:11 PM
    Q, is this you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjiwvY2F-0
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #94 - June 19, 2010, 09:11 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 08:05 PM
    P.P.S What do you have to lose by telling us your identity? If your picture is already in the newspapers, what do you have to lose by telling a guy in Pakistan what your name is?

    Are you for real?  It's completely up to him if he doesn't want to reveal his identity.  Most people wouldn't.
    .
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #95 - June 19, 2010, 09:26 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on June 19, 2010, 02:27 PM
    What the fuck? no racism against Muslims in America?

    Let's start with this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbQWxHIn4U&feature=related


    What is that Iraqi Atheist?? Did you pick up a WRONG VIDEO??.,  That videos actually shows exactly opposite to what you intended to show Islamophobia(NOT RACISM) against that lady in hijab.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #96 - June 19, 2010, 09:33 PM
    My guess is that show was filmed in the South.  The outright bigotry and the accents give it away.  One of the girls was going to college in TEXAS!  You will find that people on the East and West Coasts tend to be more open minded than in other parts of the country. 

    I love the big guy who tells the bakery worker to go f*ck himself.  Reminds me of Walter from 'The Big Lebowski'. 

    'I don't f*ckin' roll on Shabbos!'
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #97 - June 19, 2010, 10:00 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 08:05 PM
    No, not because I find it morally objectionable, but because it will increase prejudice and hate against me based on my ethnicity. Hence, there will be real consequences for me to face as the result of legalized hate speech
    If your freedom tramples on the safety of someone else, you don't get that freedom. You can have the freedom of religion, but if your religion asks you to sacrifice babies, then your freedom of religion means jack shit compared to the safety and well being of the baby.

    In the same way: I'm all for freedom of speech, except when this freedom is used to increase prejudice and hate against a particular minority group. Its not the same thing as considering something 'offensive' and 'morally objectionable', its that there are real consequences suffered by a minority group as a result of your freedom.

    I find it amusing that you think its unethical/immoral to not allow someone to spread hate speech against blacks or south asians, but you don't consider it immoral that a black/south asian guy might be judged and stereotyped, and hated just on the basis of his looks as a result of that legalized hate speech.

    P.S You need some anger management therapy.
    P.P.S What do you have to lose by telling us your identity? If your picture is already in the newspapers, what do you have to lose by telling a guy in Pakistan what your name is?


    You don't get it. And by "it" I mean everything and anything.
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #98 - June 19, 2010, 10:52 PM
    Quote
    What the fuck? no racism against Muslims in America?

    Let's start with this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbQWxHIn4U&feature=related


    I've seen a lot worse videos on youtube showing the racism in the US against Muslims. However, this was pretty interesting because at least it gave a chance for a sample of Americans, not just one or two isolated cases of disturbing racist acts:
     
    - 30 stood up for the girl (about 5 filmed)
    - 6 did not (2 of which filmed)
    - 22 did nothing

    Looks like a skewed graph to me of Americans supporting the girl there. All populations will have their share of bigots.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #99 - June 19, 2010, 10:59 PM
    Yes, but that wasn't what was at issue. @li claimed there were "no/very few cases of the kind of blatant racism reported", and that's what IA was responding to. That such cases are not uncommon but most Americans are not racist are not contradictory statements.
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #100 - June 19, 2010, 11:19 PM
    You claimed that you were tasered by cops, beaten, etc because of your muslim name despite the fact that you are white. I said that I found it hard to believe because even real muslims who wear hijab don't commonly experience that kind of racism. The video had nothing to do with the argument.
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #101 - June 19, 2010, 11:21 PM
    Q don't bother, it took atli 54 pages to understand forced abortion is wrong.
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #102 - June 19, 2010, 11:23 PM
    @Q-Man: Okay fair enough.
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #103 - June 19, 2010, 11:27 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 11:19 PM
    You claimed that you were tasered by cops, beaten, etc because of your muslim name


    I made no such claim, you need to read what I wrote again.
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #104 - June 19, 2010, 11:31 PM
    that man should be banned from every country. He has no merit left, he is now a preacher of nonsense to a audience that is brainwashed to get fed by nonsense
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #105 - June 19, 2010, 11:32 PM
    Quote
    The fact that you've stuck to your name shows that whatever discrimination comes from it is not painful enough for you to consider changing your name.


    Quote
    Or I ain't a pussy-ass sell-out. I've been tasered, beaten, stabbed, jailed and shot at, but I don't back down from a fight if I think I'm in the right. Those who are weak like you may not understand.


    So if you weren't tasered, beaten, stabbed, jailed, and shot at because of your name, why did you bring all that up in response to what i said?
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #106 - June 19, 2010, 11:34 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on June 19, 2010, 11:21 PM
    Q don't bother, it took atli 54 pages to understand forced abortion is wrong.

    Quote
    An ad hominem, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), is an attempt to persuade which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.


    Do you support that hate speech should be legal?
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #107 - June 19, 2010, 11:39 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 11:32 PM
    So if you weren't tasered, beaten, stabbed, jailed, and shot at because of your name, why did you bring all that up in response to what i said?


    *Sigh* Someone else want to explain it to him? I simply do not have the patience right now.
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #108 - June 19, 2010, 11:41 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 11:34 PM
    Do you support that hate speech should be legal?


    I'm not gonna debate with you this time friend, forget it. Not interested, no offense.
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #109 - June 19, 2010, 11:43 PM
    Quote from: _truth_ on June 19, 2010, 11:31 PM
    that man should be banned from every country. He has no merit left, he is now a preacher of nonsense to a audience that is brainwashed to get fed by nonsense

    I agree with you 100% except for the banning part.In fact more and more people that are NOT brainwashed should have an opportunity to question him and expose his bullshit.Banning him will only serve to enhance his fame as a champion of 'TRUTH"


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #110 - June 19, 2010, 11:43 PM
    BREAKING NEWS: I am hearing that Zakir Naik may not be permitted to enter Canada!

    Once I hear more I shall post. Hope its true.  dance
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #111 - June 19, 2010, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 11:39 PM
    *Sigh* Someone else want to explain it to him? I simply do not have the patience right now.

     Cheesy. You don't have to explain, I know the reason. You were too angry to think clearly and you linked your stabbing/beating to your name although perhaps you didn't mean to? Or may be you did and now you're trying to reverse what you said.
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #112 - June 19, 2010, 11:51 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 04:18 AM
    Or I ain't a pussy-ass sell-out. I've been tasered, beaten, stabbed, jailed and shot at, but I don't back down from a fight if I think I'm in the right. Those who are weak like you may not understand.


    Hey fuckface-- have you been pepper-sprayed and beaten with bludgeons by the state police because you were beating the shit out of neo-Nazis? If not, then shut the fuck up. I will step up to the fuckin plate to defend my fellow working people against racism or any other form of bigotry any day of the fuckin week.

    I have been in many situations where I was prepared to sacrifice my own freedom and safety fighting against racism and bigotry-- but what I WILL NOT do is sacrifice the freedom of others or of society in general on the altar of anti-racism.


    ali, i think it's clear that Q-man did not mean he went through all those things because of his name, but in more general terms that he went through those things for not backing down when he knew he was in the right - this is merely the same principle why he has not changed his name. one of the examples he gave was when he was fighting against racism and bigotry
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #113 - June 19, 2010, 11:53 PM
    Quote from: canex on June 19, 2010, 11:43 PM
    BREAKING NEWS: I am hearing that Zakir Naik may not be permitted to enter Canada!

    Once I hear more I shall post. Hope its true.  dance

    Take beer! cheers
    .
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #114 - June 19, 2010, 11:55 PM
    Quote from: @li on June 19, 2010, 11:46 PM
    Cheesy. You don't have to explain, I know the reason. You were too angry to think clearly and you linked your stabbing/beating to your name although perhaps you didn't mean to? Or may be you did and now you're trying to reverse what you said.


    God you're such an asshole. Lemme explain in simple, clear terms for you, Einstein:

    1. You said if I really experienced discrimination due to my name I would have changed it.

    2. I said no, I didn't change it because I wasn't going to allow myself to be bullied into changing it.

    3. I gave you a number of bad things that I experienced due to the fact that I don't back down from a fight and refuse to be intimidated.

    4. Thus, if I was willing to put up with that shit as the consequence of not backing down, I could put up with discrimination against me as the consequence of not changing my name.

    5. I gave you actual examples of discrimination against me because of my name elsewhere in my posts here.

    6. Your simple mind conflated everything

    7. Then you demanded an explanation from me as if your confusion was my fault.

    8. And so we find ourselves here.

    Get it? Remember when I said a few posts ago, in another thread, that I hope you don't post something that makes me regret saying how much you matured in a few months? Well, I regret it. You're as dense and stubborn now as you ever were.

    Quote from: abuyunus2 on June 19, 2010, 11:51 PM
    ali, i think it's clear that Q-man did not mean he went through all those things because of his name, but in more general terms that he went through those things for not backing down when he knew he was in the right - this is merely the same principle why he has not changed his name. one of the examples he gave was when he was fighting against racism and bigotry


    There ya go. See, @li, someone else gets it and didn't need further explanation. Your confusion is not my fault.
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #115 - June 19, 2010, 11:58 PM
    Q-Man and @li... both of you quit bitching at each other try to keep this thread on-topic and about Zakir Naik.

    Cheers. Smiley
    .
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #116 - June 20, 2010, 12:00 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 11:39 PM
    *Sigh* Someone else want to explain it to him? I simply do not have the patience right now.

    No. Not worth it. Try not to call him fuckface though. Wink
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #117 - June 20, 2010, 12:01 AM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on June 19, 2010, 11:58 PM
    Q-Man and @li... both of you quit bitching at each other try to keep this thread on-topic and about Zakir Naik.

    Cheers. Smiley


    Good point Shahid Raza. If @li wants the last word he can have it, I'll shut my big yap now.  Smiley
    fuck you
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #118 - June 20, 2010, 12:05 AM
    From the press releases I've been reading from Zakir and his Islamic Foundation about the ban, I've noticed that he isn't as cocky and arrogant as he usually is.  He has sanitized his message slightly.

    Obviously his agenda and aims will remain the same, but he's gonna be forced to be a bit more careful with the way in which he words things now.

    He was getting far too arrogant and cocky anyway.  Hopefully this ban will put him in his place.
    .
  • Re: Zakir Naik: Banned from UK
     Reply #119 - June 20, 2010, 12:23 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 11:55 PM
    3. I gave you a number of bad things that I experienced due to the fact that I don't back down from a fight and refuse to be intimidated.

    4. Thus, if I was willing to put up with that shit as the consequence of not backing down, I could put up with discrimination against me as the consequence of not changing my name.


    When I ask about discrimination based on your name, and in reply to that you bring up all those things, especially tasering, I'd be surprised if I was the only one who thought they were linked together.

    2ndly, showing that you've been tasered, stabbed, shot at, etc, doesn't show me anything positive about you. It shows only that a) You have anger management problems, b) You have a habit for breaking the law.

    This discussion was supposed to be only about free speech/hate speech laws, its a shame it had to get personal like this.

    Quote from: Q-Man on June 19, 2010, 11:55 PM
    Remember when I said a few posts ago, in another thread, that I hope you don't post something that makes me regret saying how much you matured in a few months? Well, I regret it. You're as dense and stubborn now as you ever were.


    Incidentally i'm also contemplating putting you back on my ignore.  I probably won't though, because I like free speech even in cases where its by total buffooons.. take care!  Afro
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