Hi Zebedee,
Sorry that it has been so long since I've been back. I've been off on some sidetracks, some related to this some not. Actually I was here Tuesday wrote a nice post then accidently deleted it. Oh well.
I hope you have been well.
And while we're at it, do you know of any verse in the Bible that mentions the age of the earth? Particularly, that it is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old, or is that just something that Young-Earthers made up?
I'll start with the age of the earth because it is easier.
AGE OF THE EARTH
There is no Bible verse that states the age of the earth nor one that suggest that the earth is 6 t0 10 thousand years old.
Let us take a look at what is said.
Genesis 1:1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Many Bible scholars will agree that Genesis 1:1 refers to a period of time before and seperate from the creative days. During the undefined time refered to in Genesis 1:1 God and the Masterworker created the physical universe and all things there in, including the earth.
So, from a Biblical point of view the earth was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began. Some Geologist estimate that the earth is 4 billion years old. Does this calculation-or any future refinement-contradict Genesis 1:1? Not at all. The Bible does not specify the age of the earth. Neither does the Bible specify an age of the universe.
What about the length of the creative days?
There is no reason to think that the creative day were literal 24 hour days. Consider the use of the word "day". The Hebrew word translated "day" can mean various lengths of time, not just a 24-hour period. Moses, when summarizing God's creative work, refers to the time before and the six creative days as one day.
Genesis 2:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.
Another example is during the first creative day part of a 24-hour day is called day and part is called night.
Genesis1:5 And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.
This is not a strange idea to use the word "day" to mean various lengths of time. It is in fact very commonly done in English. The context of the word helps us know the meaning this is the same with in this case with this word.
By looking at what happened during the creative days, or periods of time, it is easy to discern that they could have been very long.
(I'll go ahead and cut and paste some info here)
A careful consideration of the Genesis account reveals that events starting during one “day” continued into one or more of the following days. For example, before the first creative “day” started, light from the already existing sun was somehow prevented from reaching the earth’s surface, possibly by thick clouds. (Job 38:9) During the first “day,” this barrier began to clear, allowing diffused light to penetrate the atmosphere.*
On the second “day,” the atmosphere evidently continued to clear, creating a space between the thick clouds above and the ocean below. On the fourth “day,” the atmosphere had gradually cleared to such an extent that the sun and the moon were made to appear “in the expanse of the heavens.” (Genesis 1:14-16) In other words, from the perspective of a person on earth, the sun and moon began to be discernible. These events happened gradually.
The Genesis account also relates that as the atmosphere continued to clear, flying creatures—including insects and membrane-winged creatures—started to appear on the fifth “day.” However, the Bible indicates that during the sixth “day,” God was still in the process of “forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens.”—Genesis 2:19.
Clearly, the Bible’s language makes room for the possibility of some major events during each “day,” or creative period, to have occurred gradually rather than instantly, perhaps some of them even lasting into the following creative “days.”
(part of the article
The Bible's Viewpoint Does Science Contradict The Genesis Account)
I don't normally like to just cut and paste however I couldn't see any better way of explaining briefly how the some of the creative things happened gradually and would have taken some time. I think (but I may be wrong) most notably seperating the water and making the atmosphere.
Well then, please show us the verses that you think contradict evolution.
There are so many way to go about this topic.
-This is part of what had me delayed for awhile.
speciation (spē'shē-ā'shən) Pronunciation Key
The formation of new biological species by the development or branching of one species into two or more genetically distinct ones. The divergence of species is thought to result primarily from the geographic isolation of a population, especially when confronted with environmental conditions that vary from those experienced by the rest of the species, and from the random change in the frequency of certain alleles (known as genetic drift ). According to the theory of evolution, all life on Earth has resulted from the speciation of earlier organisms. See also adaptive radiation.
Does it really happen? Or have some "new" species actually been mislabled? There is a lot of information both ways. Darwin's finches are suppose to be an example of speciation. However it doesn't prove out. It's alot of information that I'd have to type in. If this this proves to be a good conversation I'd do it.
The salamander article that TheRationalizer posted falls in to the same category. On that same site there is some other information as well. Actually there is quite a controversy about the classification of some species.
Anyhow the Bible text would be:
Genesis 1:11 And God went on to say: “Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth.” And it came to be so. 12 And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:20 And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.
24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
This is what we see each kind of animal and plant reproducing according to it's kind. Yes, we could talk about all kinds of things here. I'm totally fascinated by tigon and liger but they just don't happen in nature and I have never found any information that they are able to reproduce. So even if some animals seem very much the same they are not. However there are others like dogs who have a very wide genetic potential.
I was going to do another point but I tired.
Until next time. Keep safe.
Lynna.
Topic: 24:45, water or sperm?