UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise

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- Lilyesque
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #30 - November 22, 2010, 08:22 PM

Just saying the uni wouldn't probably allow a Christian group to have a speech etc, about the islamification (as they see it) of Britain.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #31 - November 22, 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote from: serrated_colon on November 22, 2010, 08:14 PM
how can people so intelligent be so stupid. i would kill to go ICL.

Amazing no? Just goes to show how minds can on one side be very gifted, but still be susceptible to the negative Islamic meme.

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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #32 - November 22, 2010, 08:24 PM

how dare a state built upon the notion of a 'homeland for the jew as ordained in the bible' claim to be a democratic nation of justice. a state founded upon the notion of one race ruling over others already settled, fuelled by the zionist movements going back as early as the 1850s and catalysed by the abhorrent genocide of the jewish people claim to be impartial and secular. they abuse the death of 6 million of their own people in order to kill many millions more. they are a disgrace to democracy and a disgrace to all those who support it.

however, this isn't 62 years ago so i can't scream NO ISRAEL FUCK OFF YOU THEOCRATIC CUNTS. we have to deal with the fact that people who also want peace and harmony have been put their regardless of their own will for three generations now. we have to deal with the fact the true victims of this conflict aren't the israeli government or the palestinian excuse for a government. the only victims of this shitstorm are the israeli citizens and the palestinian citizens. ideally there would be a 'bi-national' state, ruled by a central and impartial government - however, i don't see the citizens, after being brainwashed to hate the other getting over this any time soon. the only solution is a two-state solution, and for israel to stop expanding and even contract a little. hopefully then, this will end. this isn't about muslims or christians or jews, this is about the utter abuse of humanity by the israeli government and hamas.

k i'm done
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #33 - November 22, 2010, 08:26 PM

I am with Lilyesque on this one. I don't particularly care whether they have the event, tbh, in fact,good for them for organising something, it might actually clear some misconceptions. And I don't give a damn about whether it be on university campus or elsewhere. The only thing that really pisses me off here is that they do and say things against other people, claiming to exercise their right to freedom of speech, but other people are not allowed to do that against them.
If I wanted to start an "anti-Islam" rally, I probably wouldn't get permission from the University authories, and if I did, the event would turn violent, and I would be called an Islamophobe and what not by the Muslims.

Tl:dr I don't care what they do, as long as they are not being hypocrites about it and let me stay stuff back at them without feeling threatened. Otherwise, I am not willing to accept "one way freedom of speech" where I am merely supposed to watch from a distance and not be able to debate and reciprocate.
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #34 - November 22, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on November 22, 2010, 08:22 PM
Just saying the uni wouldn't probably allow a Christian group to have a speech etc, about the islamification (as they see it) of Britain.

They should.

Quote from: Lassan on November 22, 2010, 08:26 PM
I am with Lilyesque on this one. I don't particularly care whether they have the event, tbh, in fact,good for them for organising something, it might actually clear some misconceptions. And I don't give a damn about whether it be on university campus or elsewhere. The only thing that really pisses me off here is that they do and say things against other people, claiming to exercise their right to freedom of speech, but other people are not allowed to do that against them.
If I wanted to start an "anti-Islam" rally, I probably wouldn't get permission from the University authories, and if I did, the event would turn violent, and I would be called an Islamophobe and what not by the Muslims.

Tl:dr I don't care what they do, as long as they are not being hypocrites about it and let me stay stuff back at them without feeling threatened. Otherwise, I am not willing to accept "one way freedom of speech" where I am merely supposed to watch from a distance and not be able to debate and reciprocate.

And so your "solution" rather than supporting the rights of anti-Islam speakers, is to demand censorship of all controversial points of view on these issue? Do you also think doctors should chop off the heads of people with headaches?

fuck you
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #35 - November 22, 2010, 08:32 PM

Quote from: serrated_colon on November 22, 2010, 08:13 PM
it's a shitstorm convuluted by neo-con fuckwits who want to 'liberate the middle east' riding on a fucking moral high horse who doesn't realise that such notions come across as arrogant rather than englightening, self-hating trotskyite pieces of shit who wear che t-shirts screaming VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN who just want to watch the world collapse and the hizb-ut-tahrir followers who interpret the oppression of some arabs and persians to be a WAR ON THE ENTIRE MUSLIM UMMAH.

True, but nearly a quarter of the world's population is so self-absorbed in their religion that they don't take a moment to reflect on this, and just keep patting each other on their backs, thinking of themselves on a pedestal a mile higher than the rest of the goddamn world.

I wonder what would happen if some protestors came in and broke up this event. Probably the whole name calling, self-absorbed crap that constantly spews out of many a (otherwise perfectly nice) Muslims.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #36 - November 22, 2010, 08:33 PM

I am just pointing that out, they should be able to talk just they would probably not be able to or if they did may be done under religious hatred laws or something (some of them), all I want is balance to it however if the counterview is not allowed to be heard everything is skewed in favour of these idiots.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #37 - November 22, 2010, 08:36 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 22, 2010, 08:30 PM
They should.

And so your "solution" rather than supporting the rights of anti-Islam speakers, is to demand censorship of all controversial points of view on these issue? Do you also think doctors should chop off the heads of people with headaches?

No, my solution is to allow both sides of the argument to be heard without one of the sides calling the other bigotted names and the other side feeling threatened.
As I said, I do not mind anything they have to say, no matter how offensive I find it. I only mind them being hypocritical and thinking of themselves as higher beings, and whining when I say something back at them.
Like Lilyesque said, if this was a Christian group organising an anti-Islam event, it would not go down very well.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #38 - November 22, 2010, 08:38 PM

Quote from: Lilyesque on November 22, 2010, 08:33 PM
I am just pointing that out, they should be able to talk just they would probably not be able to or if they did may be done under religious hatred laws or something (some of them), all I want is balance to it however if the counterview is not allowed to be heard everything is skewed in favour of these idiots.

Right, you and Lassan want to balance things out by silencing both groups instead of fighting for the rights of both to be heard. Remind me not to let you change the bathwater while my baby is in it.

fuck you
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #39 - November 22, 2010, 08:41 PM

NO Q man we want both voices to be heard HOWEVER we know that that is not going to happen anytime soon, so on my perspective anyway in order to stop extremism and segregation this side has to be quashed as these people have a high likelyhood of not hearing any kind of opposing or softening opinions. I would prefer peace and less segregation than segregation enforced by the allowance of only one voice at this uni.

THINK WIDER!
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #40 - November 22, 2010, 08:43 PM

I don't think anyone said we wanted to silence either group. I specifically said good for them for organising the event. And that I don't care if it's in University premises. Evidently, I don't mind them coming out with whatever they have to say.

I said, LET THE OTHER GROUP TALK AS WELL. By telling the Islamic group that they need to grow up, by STANDING UP TO THEM. And saying no to them, like any other group would have no said to them if this was an anti-Islam event.

Quote
Remind me not to let you change the bathwater while my baby is in it.

I don't see why you have to resort to personal insults on a what would otherwise be a civil debate, it doesn't encourage me to think about the point you might be making.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #41 - November 22, 2010, 08:47 PM

Excuse me, I have a brick wall to debate with.

fuck you
- Lilyesque
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #42 - November 22, 2010, 08:47 PM

No you have opposing thoughts to talk with.
- HighOctane
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #43 - November 22, 2010, 08:49 PM

Attention!

14 ... personal insults by Q-Man so far by my count ... and counting!

Carry on, as we are!

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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #44 - November 22, 2010, 08:50 PM

Snitch

Make it 15

fuck you
- Cheetah
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #45 - November 22, 2010, 08:54 PM

If you don't all calm down I will spam this thread with whale singing and hippies.

"Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny." - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #46 - November 22, 2010, 08:56 PM

Quote from: Q-Man on November 22, 2010, 08:47 PM
Excuse me, I have a brick wall to debate with.

Enjoy. I can see you get quite enthusiastic about such stuff.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #47 - November 22, 2010, 08:56 PM

Quote from: XxThaminaxX on November 22, 2010, 07:45 PM
Exactly. Everyone fucking talks about freedom, human rights, democracy etc. but don't want to give other people these fucking things unless its in american 'interests' to do so! NO-ONE mentions that Egypt (US backed and funded) has arrested like 1200+ political prisoners in the last few weeks! If that was Iran

Many of those arrested happen to be members of the Ikhwan. Fair enough in an ideal situation they should also get free speech but I hope that you don't cheer if the BNP get arrested. Still one has to be careful about Egypt, it is not the UK.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #48 - November 22, 2010, 08:57 PM

Quote from: Cheetah on November 22, 2010, 08:54 PM
If you don't all calm down I will spam this thread with whale singing and hippies.

fuck you
- z10
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #49 - November 22, 2010, 08:58 PM

Surely the best way is not to censor but to let them speak and show their own stupidity?
I don't think anyone here agrees completely with the HT or the stereotyping of Israel, so why not let them have their stage and allow the students to be adults and make their own intelligent deductions without you having to censor the information they recieve? do we really have to treat students so childishly and not let them make mature decisions for themselves?
Or do people here really believe that if such sentiments are censored that such thoughts won't find their way onto campus anyway?

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Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #50 - November 22, 2010, 09:00 PM

True Z10, its a cruel balancing act unfortunately many are seduced into this kind of stuff.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #51 - November 22, 2010, 09:07 PM

Just to let you know though, I said something that was basically the opposite of what you thought I was saying (apologies if it wasn't very clear) and confronted you with a differing opinion. And then you refused to answer. That's almost as bad as the "Just because it's in the Bible/Quran"

Edit: Sorry, this was in reply to Q-man, didn't realise it hadn't posted earlier.
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #52 - November 22, 2010, 09:11 PM

Quote from: z10 on November 22, 2010, 08:58 PM
so why not let them have their stage and allow the students to be adults and make their own intelligent deductions without you having to censor the information they recieve?

Many of those I have met are still not mentally. Others are easily duped. If they got duped by homeopathy advocates I shudder when I think of what else some of the concerned here might fall for.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #53 - November 22, 2010, 09:13 PM

@z10: Promoting jihadist propaganda (funded by tax payers) is unacceptable I think. There are plenty of (secular) ways to raise awareness about the Palestinians, via the route of Islamic radicalisation should not be one. Oh and btw, where is the mention for Darfur, Kurds or Christians across the Middle East as Douglas points out? I hope that makes sense.

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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #54 - November 22, 2010, 09:14 PM

True, Z10. But I think it is that (some) people that would be attending won't realise it's stupidity and be seduced onto the "rightful path" and possibly become fanatically radicalised. That is all well and fine by themselves, they can do whatever they want to themselves, but it's not very nice when someone decides to blow themselves up. It is not a pleasant feeling hearing about the latest explosion wherever your family lives and not knowing whether they are safe or not.

An ideal situation would be where they have their stage, nothing is censored, and it is possible to challenge things being said in a civil and honourable fashion, so that those making the decisions (students) feel confident enough to be able to challenge them too, and think about them objectively.
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Re: UK university hosts ?anti-West? week under ?justice' guise
Reply #55 - November 22, 2010, 09:16 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on November 22, 2010, 09:13 PM
@z10: Promoting jihadist propaganda (funded by tax payers) is unacceptable I think. There are plenty of (secular) ways to raise awareness about the Palestinians, via the route of Islamic radicalisation should not be one. Oh and btw, where is the mention for Darfur, Kurds or Christians across the Middle East as Douglas points out? I hope that makes sense.

Ditto.. I've even met a Palestinian who said that the support charades are too 'politicised' for his liking. He's a Fatah supporter

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #56 - November 22, 2010, 09:18 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on November 22, 2010, 09:13 PM
@z10: Promoting jihadist propaganda (funded by tax payers) is unacceptable I think. There are plenty of (secular) ways to raise awareness about the Palestinians, via the route of Islamic radicalisation should not be one. Oh and btw, where is the mention for Darfur, Kurds or Christians across the Middle East as Douglas points out? I hope that makes sense.

Do you not think it is arrogant of you to think that you can see through their propoganda but the average student cannot? surely the best way to counter a faulty argument is to let it be known and for everyone to see its faults rather than censor it and give it the chance to be self-righteously aggravated?

I agree that there are better ways to raise awareness of terrible situations around the world but then that's all the more reason to let these people speak and their weak position to become known to all isn't it?

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #57 - November 22, 2010, 09:20 PM

Quote from: Lassan on November 22, 2010, 09:14 PM
True, Z10. But I think it is that (some) people that would be attending won't realise it's stupidity and be seduced onto the "rightful path" and possibly become fanatically radicalised. That is all well and fine by themselves, they can do whatever they want to themselves, but it's not very nice when someone decides to blow themselves up. It is not a pleasant feeling hearing about the latest explosion wherever your family lives and not knowing whether they are safe or not.

An ideal situation would be where they have their stage, nothing is censored, and it is possible to challenge things being said in a civil and honourable fashion, so that those making the decisions (students) feel confident enough to be able to challenge them too, and think about them objectively.

I think these subjects are best discussed in a more general forum, with a more general and mixed audience.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

One very horny Turk I met on the net.
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #58 - November 22, 2010, 09:21 PM

Quote from: HighOctane on November 22, 2010, 09:13 PM
There are plenty of (secular) ways to raise awareness about the Palestinians, via the route of Islamic radicalisation should not be one.

Yeah, and you don't think your boy Douglas Murray wouldn't attack secular efforts supporting the Palestinian resistance as well? He's out to smear and silence any criticism of Israel. And if even one Muslim had a word to say critical of Israel, the people you listen to and sources you get your info from would smear the event as "jihadist"

fuck you
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Re: UK university hosts ‘anti-West’ week under ‘justice' guise
Reply #59 - November 22, 2010, 09:22 PM

Quote from: ras111 on November 22, 2010, 09:20 PM
I think these subjects are best discussed in a more general forum, with a more general and mixed audience.

Precisely.
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