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 Topic: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex

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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #120 - January 12, 2011, 05:52 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on January 12, 2011, 03:53 PM
    Even mothers and the disabled?

    Toxteth was a rebellion against the police. Your country could use more of that.


    Not mothers and the disabled, but those able to do this work, yes they should do it. My father works for shell and is well paid and my mother is a housewife, however they both say that any work is better than no work, and in the holidays from university i will be expected to go out and do a holiday job for a bit of it, failing that they would probably like me to do some voluntary work or help them around the house and garden. I just think that with a lack of occupation and mingling you are going to get people doing bad things as they have nothing to do and no self-esteem and this feeds in to crime, that and the school system failing in teaching educationally different children such as those with Dyslexia etc. Truth be told I think some people can only do "menial" work like clearing up roadsides, however in my mind this is not a blight on their character as I do not wish to see a place where this doesn't happen, the work needs to be done and I respect the people that do it to make all of our environments a better place to be in.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #121 - January 12, 2011, 07:48 PM
    Some muslim just posted this on facebook:

    "Discussion about Jack Straw's absurd attack on the pakistani community. Ummah channel, sky channel 828, 10 PM. Panellists: Lord Qurban Hussain from luton. Phil Riley, Jack straws election agent. Majed Iqbal, journalist and muslim blogger. Zaheer hussain."

    I sometimes watch the debates on ummah channel they can be quite interesting.  
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #122 - January 12, 2011, 09:01 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 04:03 PM
    I'm not sure I believe that totally. Manchester around which the Lancashire milltowns circle is vibrant economically, Leeds in Yorkshire is a dynamic city. Its not the days of George Orwell writing The Road to Wigan Pier.

    Its bothering me alot, because the entrenchment and self segregation seen up north is much worse than elsewhere. The midlands has Pakistani / Muslim ghettoes, but at least as far as I can tell, this is not happening there. Some other dysfunction is at play.

    I think that the many factors and issues that have been pointed out, come together to form a perfect storm in the particular social context of these small milltowns (including the lack of an economy vibrant enough to force people out of their segregated lives), factors that are mitigated or nullified or adjusted elsewhere.
     


    Like you said, it's complex. There may not be one overriding factor at play here but a culmination of various ones, however I do think Straw could have chosen his words a bit more carefully when analysing the issue. I'm not saying he thinks that there was predominantly a racial or ideological motivation to the sexual abuse of these girls but someone reading his comments could have interpreted it that way.

    I see the situation like this - given the troubled backgrounds of these girls, these sexually frustrated men (with no self control) saw them and thought it would be easy to lure them and in their mind justified their actions as a minor wrong, if an immoral action at all because they probably saw their victims as 'immoral' unchaste women.

    This maybe an over-simplification of the situation but I think the contributing factor was the fact these girls were vulnerable.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #123 - January 12, 2011, 09:32 PM
    Quote
    This maybe an over-simplification of the situation but I think the contributing factor was the fact these girls were vulnerable.


    I'd say the primary contributing factor is the will of the men who seek out children to groom and abuse.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #124 - January 12, 2011, 09:34 PM

    More arrests yesterday, this time in Rochdale. Girls aged between 13 and 15.

    http://menmedia.co.uk/asiannews/news/crime/s/1404893_police_probe_into_claims_of_gang_grooming_girls_for_sex_in_rochdale

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #125 - January 12, 2011, 09:43 PM
    I have no idea how these sex obsessed   Muslim  idiots  from subcontinent  think that by targeting white Christian girls they are doing great service to Muhammad's Islam..

    Those found guilty should be PHYSICALLY castrated all the way so   they realize what they are missing when they are pissing..

    Scoundrels
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #126 - January 12, 2011, 09:46 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 09:32 PM
    I'd say the primary contributing factor is the will of the men who seek out children to groom and abuse.



    Ye, that actually. I think though, the reason they targeted these type of girls was because they were vulnerable.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #127 - January 12, 2011, 09:50 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on January 12, 2011, 09:43 PM
    I have no idea how these sex obsessed   Muslim  idiots  from subcontinent  think that by targeting white Christian girls they are doing great service to Muhammad's Islam..



    They're not from the sub-continent. They are from England.  Their parents or grandparents are from Pakistan.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #128 - January 12, 2011, 09:56 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on January 12, 2011, 09:46 PM
    Ye, that actually. I think though, the reason they targeted these type of girls was because they were vulnerable.


    Vulnerable because they are children and so easily groomed to become enamoured of grown men, have money and gifts given to them, have their low self-esteem boosted by being treated nicely, and when they are dependent, plied with drinks and drugs, emotionally wrecked, told they are worthless and will either use violence or have violence used against them, told that nobody will care for them or believe them if they tell anyone, and then get passed around and used for sex. That some / many of the girls come from broken homes adds another layer of ease for abuse - girls like that are emotionally vulnerable to the attention of men who at first seem nice and friendly. Although grooming of teenage girls even if they are not from broken homes or in care follows the same pattern.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #129 - January 12, 2011, 09:56 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 09:50 PM
    They're not from the sub-continent. They are from England.  Their parents or grandparents are from Pakistan.

    Oh.. I see.,   I am glad to know that.  so they are sex obsessed Anjum Choudhries of England., Well it is up British Govt, I still say Castrate the rascals if that sounds bit horrible inject the idiots with some Cyproterones like this one



    that will do chemical castration...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #130 - January 12, 2011, 10:04 PM
    I hope the pumps get prosecuted. Never good to hear about abuse no better what race.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #131 - January 12, 2011, 10:07 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 09:56 PM
    Vulnerable because they are children and so easily groomed to become enamoured of grown men, have money and gifts given to them, have their low self-esteem boosted by being treated nicely, and when they are dependent, plied with drinks and drugs, emotionally wrecked, told they are worthless and will either use violence or have violence used against them, told that nobody will care for them or believe them if they tell anyone, and then get passed around and used for sex. That they come from broken homes adds another layer of ease for abuse - girls like that are emotionally vulnerable to the attention of men who at first seem nice and friendly.

     


    ... which is why I'm puzzled how race and cultural ideologies have become such a central focus in this discussion. I understand these elements may have been involved but no doubt that these men at the end of the day were rapists, just because you're sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have the right to go out to drug and coerce young girls into sex. No ideology or culture can take the blame for that.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #132 - January 12, 2011, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: deusvult on January 12, 2011, 10:04 PM
    I hope the pumps get prosecuted. Never good to hear about abuse no better what race.


    It's the prison sentence which is of concern to me. Rapists have gotten off with 2-7 year sentences for their crimes - sums up the dire British justice system.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #133 - January 12, 2011, 10:21 PM
    Quote
    ... which is why I'm puzzled how race and cultural ideologies have become such a central focus in this discussion. I understand these elements may have been involved but no doubt that these men at the end of the day were rapists, just because you're sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have the right to go out to drug and coerce young girls into sex. No ideology or culture can take the blame for that.


    I'm not sure what a 'race ideology' is. Religious culture and the view of women, and non Muslim women, a belief conditioned by culture, as well as the specificities of the Pakistani social structures of the background of the men is all fair to be discussed and considered.

    By the accounts of the victims, race and religion have been a factor in their grooming. A wider issue has been that there was a hesitancy to deal openly with it for reasons of political correctness. The recurrence of the offending across many towns across the north over at least the last decade distinguishes it as systemic, and the profile of the victims and the perpetrators remains the same.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #134 - January 12, 2011, 10:34 PM
    That's fair enough, my point is we can't blame any one ideology for this - these were grown men who are morally and legally responsible for their actions but I understand that the underlying issues of cultural views need to be addressed.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #135 - January 12, 2011, 10:48 PM
    Quote
    That's fair enough, my point is we can't blame any one ideology for this - these were grown men who are morally and legally responsible for their actions but I understand that the underlying issues of cultural views need to be addressed.


    I don't think anyone is blaming one 'ideology', whatever that may be. A held attitude that combines extreme misogyny with an idea that 'they' are lesser as people means its easy to dehumanise and abuse repeatedly. Thats one thing that might contribute to the phenomenon, amongst other things.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #136 - January 12, 2011, 10:53 PM
    How do we know for sure it's only happening in the North billy?  Could it be the case that, although it's eventually been exposed there and given publicity, it's also going on elsewhere but being hushed up?   Huh?
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #137 - January 12, 2011, 10:58 PM
    It could be happening elsewhere Maya we don't know for sure. All the cases except one in Derby have been centred in the north, Preston, Oldham, Rochdale, Blackburn, over into Yorkshire too. I'm just going on the evidence that there is, and on the presumption that if it was happening elsewhere, we would know about it for the same reason that people knew it was happening in the north for years and years before it was addressed. The first I personally came across it was in 2004 with the Channel 4 documentary, by all accounts its been happening since long back.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #138 - January 12, 2011, 11:07 PM
    Quote from: billy on January 12, 2011, 10:48 PM
    I don't think anyone is blaming one 'ideology', whatever that may be. A held attitude that combines extreme misogyny with an idea that 'they' are lesser as people means its easy to dehumanise and abuse repeatedly. Thats one thing that might contribute to the phenomenon, amongst other things.




    Sorry, I'm using the terms ideology and culture interchangably. Yep, I do think that there will be people who do latch on to the ethnicity aspect of these cases a bit too much (because they have certain political leanings) without discerning the intricacies of the surrounding problems of such cases.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #139 - January 12, 2011, 11:10 PM
    I wouldn't describe them as intricacies, more like various contributing, cumulative factors.

    Structures of abuse, silences surrounding this abuse........there is so much going on here.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #140 - January 13, 2011, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: billy
    There is something about the northern milltowns and the interplay between a very harsh, unforgiving, insular culture rooted in rural Pakistan (Mirpur) and the social reality of these towns, with a morality being formed that is perverse and stunted, and with individuals engaging in group think that orders the world along the lines of it being acceptable to groom and then abuse sexually vulnerable girls. The fact that the girls are not from 'the tribe', without value because of that, is justification for that abuse.


    So you are saying that the problem is not rooted in Islam but in Pakistani "rural culture"?

    Quote
    And remember - this is not an issue of women being abused - these are CHILDREN who are the victims of these gangs


    And remember, Islam - due to the example of its "perfect" prophet who purportedly married a 6-yr-old girl and "consumated" his marriage with her when she was 9 - regards such behavior as (correction) "HALAL".
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #141 - January 13, 2011, 02:31 PM
    Quote from: Maya on January 12, 2011, 10:53 PM
    How do we know for sure it's only happening in the North billy?  Could it be the case that, although it's eventually been exposed there and given publicity, it's also going on elsewhere but being hushed up?   Huh?

    It's happening in Holland and perhaps Germany too. I've lost the link; I'll post it if I find it.
    Muslim men again and vulnerable girls being groomed for abuse. 
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #142 - January 13, 2011, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: Maya on January 12, 2011, 10:53 PM
    How do we know for sure it's only happening in the North billy?  Could it be the case that, although it's eventually been exposed there and given publicity, it's also going on elsewhere but being hushed up?   Huh?

    Sure I've seen it's going on in Holland and perhaps Germany too.  Muslim men grooming vulnerable girls/children again.  Can't find the link again. I'll post if/when I find it.
    How the heck do you delete a duplicated post. Can't find the destruction.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #143 - January 13, 2011, 02:39 PM
    fuck you
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #144 - January 13, 2011, 02:45 PM
    Cannabalism, Eh! That sums it up.
    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #145 - January 13, 2011, 02:48 PM
    Quote from: sojournerlumus on January 13, 2011, 02:31 PM
    It's happening in Holland and perhaps Germany too. I've lost the link; I'll post it if I find it.
    Muslim men again and vulnerable girls being groomed for abuse.  

    But they are Morroccans not Pakistanis.  

    LIke I said earlier, I believe this is not a directly Pakistani related issue, not even a directly Islam related issue as it does not tell anywhere to go around randomly trading young kaffir girls (although there is a hadith context for prisoners of war as war booty.)  

    I believe its a traditional Islam issue, and communities that were founded on Islam, with little external influence, are likely to be affected to a greater extent.

    Yes, Pakistan culture is in a mess at the moment but this can be attributable to Islam too.  Note that Pakistan had the earliest known civilisation in the Indus Valley prior to Islam.
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #146 - January 13, 2011, 02:52 PM
    yes an appalling example of confederate racism Q-man, but irrelevent to this particular issue.

    As you have raised the matter of race:"PROPHET" Muhammad was a white man btw

    OBADIYAH YSRAYL (author of linked article detailing "prophet" Muhammad's whiteyness)
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #147 - January 13, 2011, 02:55 PM
    Quote from: IsLame
    I believe its a traditional Islam issue, and communities that were founded on Islam, with little external influence, are likely to be affected to a greater extent.

    Yes, Pakistan culture is in a mess at the moment but this can be attributable to Islam too.  Note that Pakistan had the earliest known civilisation in the Indus Valley prior to Islam.


    +100
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #148 - January 13, 2011, 02:58 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on January 13, 2011, 02:48 PM
    But they are Morroccans not Pakistanis.  

    LIke I said earlier, I believe this is not a directly Pakistani related issue, not even a directly Islam related issue as it does not tell anywhere to go around randomly trading young kaffir girls (although there is a hadith context for prisoners of war as war booty.)  

    I believe its a traditional Islam issue, and communities that were founded on Islam, with little external influence, are likely to be affected to a greater extent.

    Yes, Pakistan culture is in a mess at the moment but this can be attributable to Islam too.  Note that Pakistan had the earliest known civilisation in the Indus Valley prior to Islam.


    IsLame, I think its mostly to do with extreme insularity mixed with a warped, misogynistic and tribal minded value system inside a closed set of networks. Basically the perpetrators are all in it together and share that outlook. Everything else is just an ingredient in the whole thing. Also, because it hasn't really been tackled before, it has flourished. The more people like Mohammad Shafique of the Ramadan foundation speak out (and respect to him for his sterling work) and the more the perpetrators get caught, the more it will (hopefully) subside.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Jack Straw says some UK Pakistani men see white girls as "easy meat" for sex
     Reply #149 - January 13, 2011, 03:00 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on January 13, 2011, 02:39 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Never been about, and never had anything to do with that. Its about children getting raped by abusive predatory men.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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