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Theme Changer

 Topic: 9/11

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  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #60 - September 12, 2011, 04:28 AM
    I'm looking at it in terms of a military conflict. A lot of Islamist terrorists may just be bloodthirsty nihilist nutjobs, but OBL and Al-Qaeda had a pretty damn clear program. They viewed it in strategic military terms and it's a mistake to think otherwise.
    fuck you
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #61 - September 12, 2011, 04:33 AM
    Perhaps. But it's still beside the point. Whatever the respective criminals were intending the end product was a massacre, and I'm just annoyed when people try to dismiss something like this in terms of "they had it coming". We all have it coming if you take that line of reasoning to it's logical extreme.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #62 - September 12, 2011, 04:49 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on September 10, 2011, 05:04 PM
    Chomsky: 9/11 - was there an alternative?

    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/20119775453842191.html


    Quote from: chomsky
    That Washington was bent on fulfilling bin Laden’s fervent wishes was evident at once. As discussed in my book 9-11, written shortly after those attacks occurred, anyone with knowledge of the region could recognise “that a massive assault on a Muslim population would be the answer to the prayers of bin Laden and his associates, and would lead the US and its allies into a ‘diabolical trap’, as the French foreign minister put it”.


    There was no "massive assault on a Muslim population" by the US - which could if it chose exterminate most of the world's Muslim population with conventional weapons alone. There is a difference between high "collateral damage" sustained during a questionable invasion of Iraq, and indifference thereto by the US public and authorities, and deliberately attacking a population.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #63 - September 12, 2011, 04:51 AM
    Quote from: DH on September 12, 2011, 04:49 AM
    which could if it chose exterminate most of the world's Muslim population with conventional weapons alone.


    You must be busting a nut just thinking of that, eh?
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #64 - September 12, 2011, 04:54 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi
    whereas Srebrenica (or whatever, fuckin Balkans and their lack of vowels) was just a straight-up war crime with no discernible tactical aim other than pure terror and ethnic cleansing.


    There was a "revenge" mentality to Serb atrocities prompted by prior Muslim atrocities against innocent Serbs - rather like the "revenge" mentality that drove Soviet atrocities during their invasion of Nazi Germany.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #65 - September 12, 2011, 04:55 AM
    Srebrenica must be like porn for DH, dead muslim porn.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #66 - September 12, 2011, 04:56 AM
    Quote from: Jesus Christ on September 12, 2011, 04:51 AM
    You must be busting a nut just thinking of that, eh?


    No I am not advocating mass slaughter. Merely pointing out a fact.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #67 - September 12, 2011, 07:47 AM
    Trolling moved to: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=17563.0
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #68 - September 12, 2011, 08:13 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAMlF3KO1vs&feature=feedlik_feedf
    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #69 - September 12, 2011, 09:45 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on September 12, 2011, 04:12 AM
    was just a straight-up war crime with no discernible tactical aim other than pure terror and ethnic cleansing.


    There was a tactical aim to the ethnic cleansing, as perverse and depraved as it is to imagine it in those terms.

    It was to change the demographics by (a) physical extermination of individuals of the ethnic group which would also lead to (b) mass exodus caused by fear leading to said territory and area thus 'belonging' to the ethnicity of those who carried out the mass killing.

    With the effect of also making whichever members of the minority remained bow their heads for fear of it happening again - subservience and a 'lesson' was taught to them.

    Evil and satanic actions - but to the perpetrators, a definite tactical 'logic' alongside the ethno-nationalist hatreds that fed the Nazi-like collective punishment 'revenge'.

    Psychologically you could perhaps argue that this was a veneer of self-justification applied over simple, base atavistic hatred - but when the 'greater good' of 'blood and earth and purity' ethnic nationalism is mobilised, it is perfectly 'logical' that the greater good can be served by killing innocent people in massacres for this end.

    When the cause is purity, blood and earth, it makes perfect tactical sense, because of what your endgame is, an endgame which is part of the numbers game - to purify the blood and earth for the salvation of the 'righteous' group. And they mean it literally, not metaphorically or poetically - although in their narrative, the spiritual and physical purity their religion of ethnic-nationalism requires are intertwined.







    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #70 - September 12, 2011, 03:12 PM
    @ Q & JC

    Al-Qaeda wanted a reaction from the US (they got it too) had they not killed thousands I don't think the US would have responded in such a way, so yes to cause significant loss of life was an objective but had that be there only or main objective they would have used different tactics, like simultaneous attacks by gunmen on schools, shopping centres, stadiums etc. These targets were chosen for a specific reason, they were symbolic and they had the religious justifications for such attack, the WTC was an economic target, you could say the Meccan caravans of today parrot


    Yes it was collective punishment, but the Ottoman empire hasn't existed for quite some time and their killing/oppression of serbs happened like you said centuries ago, however the US empire exists today and it still uses collective punishment as a weapon. Whether it be the sanctions on Iraq that killed thousands of children or the blockade on Gaza so I don't think your comparison is the same.

    Quote from: Jesus Christ on September 12, 2011, 04:33 AM
    Perhaps. But it's still beside the point. Whatever the respective criminals were intending the end product was a massacre, and I'm just annoyed when people try to dismiss something like this in terms of "they had it coming". We all have it coming if you take that line of reasoning to it's logical extreme.


    Agreed. But I wouldn't personally try telling someone who's lost a loved one that they cannot retaliate.....and there's more people wanting to attack the US today than there was prior to 9/11  whistling2
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #71 - September 12, 2011, 03:22 PM

    Quote from: Jesus Christ on September 12, 2011, 03:32 AM
    My main point is that one can point to Srebrenica and easily say "Well the Bosnian muslims had it coming, after all their Ottoman brothers slaughtered and oppressed the Serb people for 500 years". It's the concept of collective punishment I'm going after. Every person (like this poster) who goes "well they had it coming" would never say the same if their respective peoples were slaughtered indiscriminately based on what their government or historical predecessor did.

    Fact is, all our governments and ancestors have done terrible terrible things. If we use this logic of "chickens coming home to roost" then practically any tragedy and war crime can be written of as "they had it coming".


    Indeed  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #72 - September 12, 2011, 03:34 PM
    Quote from: Aphrodite on September 12, 2011, 03:12 PM
    Yes it was collective punishment, but the Ottoman empire hasn't existed for quite some time and their killing/oppression of serbs happened like you said centuries ago, however the US empire exists today and it still uses collective punishment as a weapon. Whether it be the sanctions on Iraq that killed thousands of children or the blockade on Gaza so I don't think your comparison is the same.


    Does the passage of time make the collective group less responsible for their ancestors or government's crime? By stating that you're still keeping to the idea that innocents are somehow linked and responsible for such things to begin with. I'm saying NO, we should never project the deeds of leaders and ancestors on innocent non-combatants ever. Doesn't matter if it was 5 years ago or 500 years ago.

    If we're going to hold Americans somehow responsible for the disconnected foreign policies of it's political and military class, then are we willing to say the same for everyone? After all the Muslim rulers of the Balkansdid oppress and slaughter countless Christians in their 500+ years of domination, the resentment of lands lost and shattered pride that Serbs feel is very real.. so it's not very hard for them to slaughter thousands of Muslims and feel justified in doing so. Hindu extremists have used the same line of logic when engaging in pogroms against Muslims, after all it's payback for the near 1000 years of Muslim invasions and slaughters of Hindus, isn't it?

    All I'm saying is just think twice before you try to project collective guilt onto non-combatants. No one is clean.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #73 - September 12, 2011, 03:37 PM

    Collective Punishers create the 'rules' as they go along, as far as statutes of limitations for 'understandable' violence taking place are concerned. One thing they are usually careful to do is to construe the rules in such a way that their own designated nationality / religion / collective falls outside of this remit, should any form of Collective Punishment / violence befall innocent individuals from their own background.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #74 - September 12, 2011, 03:51 PM
    If 9/11 was truly about causing maximum civilian deaths then rather the planes attacking the economic, military and political targets, they would have surely crashed into the many nuclear reactors found in the USA.


    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #75 - September 12, 2011, 03:56 PM
    Answer my question on page 2.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #76 - September 12, 2011, 04:07 PM
    JC, it is a tough question, no doubt. The endless cycle of violence. I think Aphrodite came nearest to answering it.

    >>>>>>>>>Yes it was collective punishment, but the Ottoman empire hasn't existed for quite some time and their killing/oppression of serbs happened like you said centuries ago, however the US empire exists today and it still uses collective punishment as a weapon. Whether it be the sanctions on Iraq that killed thousands of children or the blockade on Gaza so I don't think your comparison is the same<<<<<<<


    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #77 - September 12, 2011, 04:15 PM
    You cannot deny that the Americans in pursuit of spreading their sphere of influence has always used other countries as battlefields, for a country that has visited death and destruction on directly or by proxy on i reckon at least 50 countries, it itself has never had it's own mainland borders violated. Prior to 9/11.



    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #78 - September 12, 2011, 04:27 PM
    free spirit... that is sooo not true.  The english, french and spanish
    attacked America, as did the japanese in WWII
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #79 - September 12, 2011, 04:38 PM
    J and T - I am not talking about battles with colonialist etc. I should have added since WW1, the time that imo constitutes 'modern history'. As for Japan, I had remembered to include 'mainland' in my assertion.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #80 - September 12, 2011, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on September 10, 2011, 10:20 PM
    But I don't like the way in which the anniversary of this particular terrorist attack gets so much news coverage and headlines.  And I wish it wasn't referred to by it's calendar date, ie 9/11 (or "September 11").

    I agree to this. It actually pisses me off, one terrorist attack in the U.S gets so much coverage as if its such a big deal, while no one seems to give a shit about all the terrorist attacks in Pakistan.  Roll Eyes
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #81 - September 12, 2011, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on September 12, 2011, 02:42 AM
    Bad comparison.

    9/11 attacks were on economic, military and political targets (all of which have been considered legit targets by the militaries of Western nation-states in conventional wars), as opposed to indiscriminate slaughter of civilians (which Islamic terrorists also do, but I don't think 9/11 was one of them).

    Markets full of civilians in my country have been attacked by the same fucktards.
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #82 - September 12, 2011, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: Free Spirit on September 12, 2011, 03:51 PM
    If 9/11 was truly about causing maximum civilian deaths then rather the planes attacking the economic, military and political targets, they would have surely crashed into the many nuclear reactors found in the USA.




    As if the nuclear reactors are just sitting duck with no anti air craft guns / security  Roll Eyes
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #83 - September 12, 2011, 05:14 PM
    Free Spirit...oh, Im sure the colonists who were terrorized and killed,
    and those families of the killed in Hawaii would beg to differ.  
    Hawaii IS a state in the USA.  So why does it have to be since WWI
    and only on the mainland?

    shilakijawani

    Quote
    I agree to this. It actually pisses me off, one terrorist attack in the U.S gets so much coverage as if its such a big deal, while no one seems to give a shit about all the terrorist attacks in Pakistan.

      

    Are we talking the difference between muslim and infadel, or muslim on muslim terrorism
    in pakistan?  Of course people (like me) care about the attacks in pakistan!  

    My best friend lost her son, my sister was right there pregnant with my nephew.  
    I guarantee, if my sister or nephew had been killed, I would have already
    committed retaliation by now.  Lost my fucking retirement fund because of it,
     and worked my ass off for years to get that.. HONEST, HARD WORK.
    So roll your eyes all you want, asshole.  I honor the fallen of 9/11, was personally
    life long affected by it, and fyi, i havent watched any news coverage on it in the
    last few days, including today.  I dont want to relive it, it was a fucking nightmare
    in 2001, why would I want to rekindle my anger and desire to retaliate now?
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #84 - September 12, 2011, 05:15 PM
    Yeah, they only killed 3000 people when they could have killed 10,000.. they sure weren't aiming for civilian casualties.  Afro
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #85 - September 12, 2011, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: shilakijawani on September 12, 2011, 04:51 PM
    I agree to this. It actually pisses me off, one terrorist attack in the U.S gets so much coverage as if its such a big deal, while no one seems to give a shit about all the terrorist attacks in Pakistan.  Roll Eyes


    Why are you waiting for the rest of the world to care about terrorist attacks in Pakistan?  The Americans don't wait for sympathy from the outside - they organise their own memorial services and remembrance parades.  Nothing stopping Pakistan from doing the same.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #86 - September 12, 2011, 05:18 PM
    To answer the thread, when 9/11 happened I was like 11. The only things I remember about it are, seeing the planes crash into the towers, reading the caption 'america under attack' on cnn, and the next day in school when the teacher asked, which of you watched the news, the girl I had a crush on raised her arm up the fastest.  001_wub

    In terms of idealogy, I was conflicted. At that time I used to glorify jihad and at one place in my mind I was happy america was attacked (I used to think it was the enemy of islam), and at the same time I couldn't get myself to feel happy about it seeing the planes crash into the towers.
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #87 - September 12, 2011, 05:18 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on September 12, 2011, 05:17 PM
    Why are you waiting for the rest of the world to care about terrorist attacks in Pakistan?  The Americans don't wait for sympathy from the outside - they organise their own memorial services and remembrance parades.  Nothing stopping Pakistan from doing the same.


    +1

    One thing I like about Americans. They don't really give a flying fuck what you think about them, they aren't sitting around waiting for sympathy. Nor should they get any. We mourn our own.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #88 - September 12, 2011, 05:26 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on September 12, 2011, 05:17 PM
    Why are you waiting for the rest of the world to care about terrorist attacks in Pakistan?  The Americans don't wait for sympathy from the outside - they organise their own memorial services and remembrance parades.  Nothing stopping Pakistan from doing the same.

    Pakistan has had so many terrorist attacks, if we began to hold memorial services, we'd be holding them 100-200 days a year. Vast majority of them after U.S attacked afghanistan. U.S gets 1 terrorist attack, fucks up Iraq as well as the life of ordinary pakistanis who have nothing to do with anything except their lives, and on the anniversary of that 1 attack it acts as if its the bravest, most victimized country/nation of the world. Spare me please.  Roll Eyes
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: 9/11
     Reply #89 - September 12, 2011, 05:29 PM
    What do you expect Shilaki? Pakistan is attacked by it's own. That's why you don't commemorate that shit, because it's embarrasing. But 9/11 was suprise attack by foreigners on the US that killed 2000 people in the space of an hour or so, of course they will commemorate it with grandeaur.
    Formerly known as Iblis
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