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 Topic: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets

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  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #330 - November 07, 2011, 11:59 AM

    So before European immigrants had built up sufficient numerical strength to displace the "Native Americans" by force the word "native" did not properly apply to the pre-columbian population of North America. Do I understand your reasoning correctly?


    The natives are only discussed when they are weaker. Not because of population numbers.

    Quote
    Many people do. The question is whether it is a valid designation.


    Every single government in Europe consists of 90% or above  'natives'. What people are actually complaining about is that most of their own people, disagree with them. Rendering their concept of "their people" pointless.

    Quote
    "Really? What about the Turks who overran Anatolia in centuries past? Or the Arabs of North Africa whose ancestors overran the region in several waves of conquest? How did the later European waves of conquest and colonisation differ from these?"


    Arabic is a language, you have black Arabs and white ones and inbetween. The people in Lebanon, don't come from Arabia. They know Arabic for the same reason the country with the highest amount of English speakers is India.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #331 - November 07, 2011, 12:09 PM

    Yes, you can blame them for that, is it the fault of us ordinary folk for the problems in Palestine or any where in the world, can they not appreciate the host country giving them refuge, allowing access to our schools, health service, housing etc, giving them a far better life than they could ever expect in the country of origin.
    They should be thanking us not blowing us up on airlines, buses and tubes. Not trying to take over our cities and trying to enforce the very conditions that their parents and grandparents escaped from, to me it is a form of madness. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Arthur.


    You have a problem with acts of terrorism?

    1970-1979

        8 March 1973: The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) conducted its first operation in Britain, planting four car bombs in London. Two bombs exploded, killing one person and injuring 180 others. Ten members of the IRA group, including Gerry Kelly, Dolours Price and Marian Price, were arrested at Heathrow Airport trying to leave the country.[5]
        24 December 1973: The Provisional IRA left two packages which exploded almost simultaneously in the late evening on Christmas Eve. One was in the doorway of the North Star public house South Hampstead, which exploded injuring six people, and the other exploded on the upstairs verandah of the nearby Swiss Cottage Tavern where an unspecified number of people were injured.[6][7]
        17 June 1974: A bomb exploded at the Houses of Parliament in London, causing extensive damage and injuring 11 people.[8]
        7 November 1974: An off-duty soldier and a civilian were killed when a bomb was thrown through the window of the Kings Arms pub in Woolwich, and 28 people were injured.[9]
        21 December 1974: A bomb was defused in Harrods department store in Knightsbridge, London. A second bomb was defused in the King's Arms public house in Warminster, Wiltshire.[9]
        28 August 1975: Seven people were injured when a bomb exploded in Oxford Street, London. A telephone warning was issued to The Sun newspaper five minutes before the explosion.[10]
        5 September 1975: Two people were killed and 63 injured when an IRA bomb exploded in the lobby of the Hilton hotel in London.[11]
        6–12 December 1975: Four IRA members held two people hostage in the Balcombe Street Siege.[12]
        27 March 1976: A bomb placed by the Provisional IRA exploded in a litter bin at the top of an escalator in a crowded exhibition hall, Earl's Court. 20,000 people were attending the Daily Mail Ideal Home Exhibition at the time. 70 were injured, 4 people lost limbs.[13]
        30 March 1979, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary Airey Neave was killed as he left the House of Commons car park by a car bomb planted by the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) in 1979.[14][15]

    [edit] 1980-1989

        10 October 1981: a bomb blast on Ebury Bridge Road next to Chelsea Barracks kills two people and injures 39.
        26 October 1981: a bomb planted by the IRA in a Wimpy Bar on Oxford Street kills Kenneth Howorth, the Metropolitan Police explosives officer who is attempting to defuse it.
        20 July 1982: Two bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park, London by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) kill 11 members of the Household Cavalry and the Royal Green Jackets. Seven horses are also killed.
        17 December 1983: Harrods was bombed by the IRA. Six people were killed (including three police officers) and 90 wounded during Christmas shopping at the West London department store. (See Harrods bombing)

    [edit] 1990-1999

        16 May 1990: Wembley IRA detonate a bomb underneath a minibus killing Sgt Charles Chapman (The Queen's Regiment) and injuring another soldier. No one was ever convicted of Sgt Chapman's murder.
        20 July 1990: London Stock Exchange, the IRA detonated a large bomb at the London Stock Exchange causing massive damage.
        7 February 1991 Mortar attack on 10 Downing Street[16]
        18 February 1991: A bomb explodes in Paddington Station, damaging the building's roof but causing no casualties. Three hours later another bomb explodes at Victoria Station. One man is killed and 38 people injured.
        10 January 1992: Small device exploded. No injuries, Whitehall Place, London SW1.
        28 February 1992: A bomb explodes at London Bridge station injuring 29 people.
        10 April 1992 Baltic Exchange bombing: A large bomb explodes outside 30 St Mary Axe in the City of London. The bomb was contained in a large white truck and consisted of a fertilizer device wrapped with a detonation cord made from Semtex. It killed three people: Paul Butt, aged 29, Baltic Exchange employee Thomas Casey, aged 49, and 15-year old Danielle Carter. Several people were critically or severely injured. The bomb also caused damage to surrounding buildings (many of which were further damaged by a second bomb the following year). The bomb caused £800 million worth of damage—£200 million more than the total damage costs resulting from all 10,000 previous explosions that had occurred relating to the Troubles in Northern Ireland. A new skyscaper was built on the site of the previous historic building.[17]
        11 April 1992: A large bomb explodes underneath the A406 flyover at Staples Corner, causing serious damage to roads and nearby buildings including a B&Q DIY store and causing the closure of the junction. The blast was large enough to be felt many miles away.
        12 October 1992: A device exploded in the gentlemen's toilet of the Sussex Arms public house in Covent Garden, killing one person and injuring four others.
        16 November 1992: the IRA planted a bomb at Canary Wharf in the Docklands. The device was spotted by security guards and was deactivated safely.
        28 January 1993: a bomb exploded in a litter bin outside Harrods, injuring four people.[18]
        27 February 1993: a bomb exploded in a litter bin outside a McDonalds restaurant in Camden Town, injuring several people.[19]
        24 April 1993 Bishopsgate bombing: the IRA detonated a huge truck bomb in the City of London at Bishopsgate, It killed journalist Ed Henty, injured over 40 people, and causing approximately £1 billion worth of damage,[20] including the near destruction of St Ethelburga's Bishopsgate church, and serious damage to Liverpool Street station. Police had received a coded warning, but were still evacuating the area at the time of the explosion. The insurance payments required were so large that Lloyd's of London almost went bankrupt under the strain, and there was a crisis in the London insurance market. The area had already suffered damage from the Baltic Exchange bombing the year before.
        October 1993: Over eight days, a series of IRA bombs were left in various London locations. On 1 October, four bombs were left on Finchley Road, three of which exploded, causing damage to buildings and several injuries caused by falling glass. On 4 October, pairs of bombs were left in Highgate (where one failed to explode), Hornsey, and Archway, causing significant damage but no injuries. On 8 October, bombs exploded in Staples Corner and West Hampstead, again causing damage but no injuries.
        March 1994 Heathrow Airport, The IRA launched a series of mortar attacks on the airport, partially paralysing the capital's main air route.
        9 February 1996 Docklands bombing: the IRA bombed the South Quay area of London, killing two people.
        15 February 1996: A 5-pound (2.3 kg) bomb placed in a telephone box is disarmed by Police on the Charing Cross Road.
        18 February 1996: An IRA bomb detonates prematurely on a bus travelling along Aldwych in central London, killing Edward O'Brien, the IRA member transporting the device and injuring eight others.[21]

     Real IRA attacks after the Belfast Agreement

     

    2000 1 June: Real IRA bomb explodes on Hammersmith Bridge, London
    2000 20 September: Real IRA fired a RPG at the MI6 HQ in London SIS Building
    2001 4 March: The Real IRA detonate a car bomb outside the BBC's main news centre in London. One London Underground worker suffered deep cuts to his  eye from flying glass and some damage was caused to the front of the building.[15] (See 4 March 2001 BBC bombing)
    2001 16 April: Hendon post office bombed by the Real IRA.
    2001 6 May: The Real IRA detonate a bomb in a London postal sorting office. One person was injured.[16]
    2001 3 August: A Real IRA Bomb in Britain explodes in Ealing, West London, injuring seven people.[17] (See 3 August 2001 Ealing bombing)
    4 November: Real IRA car bomb explodes in Birmingham[18]
    2005 7 July: The 7 July 2005 London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers, killing 56 people and injuring 700.
    2007 January - February: The 2007 United Kingdom letter bombs
    30 June: 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists.
    22 May: 22 May 2008 Exeter bombing by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Where were the EDL when it was white people doing the terrorism?



    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #332 - November 07, 2011, 12:17 PM

    On 28 September 2006, Robert Cottage, a former candidate for the British National Party, was arrested at his home in Talbot Street, Colne.[1] The police claimed to have recovered chemical components which could be used to make explosives. They believe it is the largest haul ever discovered in someone's home in England.[2] He was charged under the Explosive Substances Act 1883 on 2 October.

    On 29 September 2006, David Bolus Jackson, a retired dentist, was arrested in Grange-over-Sands and also charged under the Explosive Substances Act 1883 on 2 October. His house in Trent Road, Nelson, Lancashire was also searched, and the prosecutor in the case reported that rocket launchers, chemicals, BNP literature and a nuclear biological suit were uncovered. The prosecutor also alleged that the pair had "some kind of master plan".

    No charges have been brought under any of the Terrorism Acts.

    There was no coverage of the arrests on the BBC, and very little in the national papers, beyond a paragraph in "Newsbriefs" in The Sunday Times,[7] as well as socialist newspaper The Morning Star.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Arthur is just a product of a series of Newspaper headlines. There's a reason why most EDL people are simpletons, they think the printed word is magic. The headlines say who the enemy is and the Qur'an is their manual, it all makes sense!

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #333 - November 07, 2011, 12:33 PM


    The EDL is a get out clause for those inclined to do so (for various reasons) for not dealing with the specific issues of Islamism, salafism, Deobandism, Tableegi-Jamaat, Jamaat-e-Islami, Ikhwani identity politics and literalist Islam in Britain - another reason why it is corrosive.

    The concern about these issues is very real and the existence and rhetoric of the EDL clouds the issue.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #334 - November 07, 2011, 12:39 PM

    The headlines say who the enemy is and the Qur'an is their manual, it all makes sense!


    Certain tabloids generalise the issues, and this has to be taken into account. However, its impossible to deal with this situation without addressing how the EDL-ists take their cue from Islamists, Ummah Identity Politics, literalist Islam practised and prosletysed in Britain, Deobandi/Salafi/Tableegi/Jamaati style.

    Direct, total deterministic causality between Islam and Muslims, manichean binary division of society between Muslims / non Muslims - these ideas emanate directly from literalist Islam and Islamism.

    Without a pincer movement against both, the problem won't be addressed.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #335 - November 07, 2011, 12:51 PM


    Where were the EDL when it was white people doing the terrorism?


    I'm presuming you weren't around or have forgotten how the Irish Republican terrorist campaign was one of the major furnaces in the engine of the far-right in Britain during the troubles. To the extent that there were links between the far-right on mainland Britain and loyalist terrorist organisations. The anthem of the far-right was 'No Surrender to the IRA' accompanied by fuhrer salutes. When England played Ireland in Dublin in 1995 there was a riot in the stadium that led to the game being abandoned. It wasn't just a case of boozed up football hooligans, it was orchestrated specifically by far-right elements who wanted a stage to 'protest' against the IRA, and did so in a city and setting that had nothing whatsoever to do with the provisional IRA.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #336 - November 07, 2011, 03:07 PM

    The EDL didn't exist before 2009 and and there are plenty of white muslims here, some 200,000 of them.

    There are also some differences in the IRA campaign and the jihadist ones, one difference is that the IRA called in a warning before their bombs exploded. The IRA were fighting for a united Ireland, at no point did they try to colonise towns and cities like the jihadists.

    All extremism is wrong, no matter who they are and had the EDL been around in those day then we would have been against the IRA.

    The right wing extremist you refer to may have been connected to the BNP in some way but not the EDL,we are democrats and we are not really right wing either, this so called right wing tag is one used by the left and a biased media.

    Arthur.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #337 - November 07, 2011, 03:25 PM

    Quote
    we are democrats and we are not really right wing either

     Cheesy

    hey, didn't hitler get elected and claimed to be a socialist?

     short bus
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #338 - November 07, 2011, 03:40 PM

    ^Yes he did, and in fact the Nazi party was partly  socialist. They were put in the right extreme corner by the left, because the Nazis hated communists. Classical far- right were Franco in Spain and to a lesser extent Mussolini in Italy. Doesn't make Hitler less despiccable, though.

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #339 - November 07, 2011, 05:47 PM

    EDL are not a political party, we don't stand for election and we don't want power.
    So you can't make those sorts of comparisons.

    Arthur.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #340 - November 07, 2011, 05:51 PM

    ay yo arfur, dont worry im wit u n da ee-dee-ell. long lif englend!

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #341 - November 07, 2011, 06:09 PM

    EDL are not a political party, we don't stand for election and we don't want power.
    So you can't make those sorts of comparisons.

    Arthur.


    It is up to the mainstream to decide what far-right is. Nobody owns up nowadays to being far-right, it's a loaded term.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farright-group-to-become-a-political-party-2233613.html


    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #342 - November 08, 2011, 05:58 AM

    Quote from: post human
    The natives are only discussed when they are weaker. Not because of population numbers.


    Sorry, "the natives are only discussed" by whom exactly?

    Quote
    Every single government in Europe consists of 90% or above  'natives'. What people are actually complaining about is that most of their own people, disagree with them. Rendering their concept of "their people" pointless.


    Again, I can't make out what your "argument" is here. Who are these "complaining people" exactly?


    Quote
    Arabic is a language,


    Yes the language of the Arabs, an ethnic group centred on the ARABIAN peninsula of which they can be regarded as the NATIVE population. "Arab" is therefore primarily an ethno-geographical designation.

    Quote
    you have black Arabs and white ones and in-between.


    So? What conclusion should be drawn from this? You have Europeans of varying hues and physiognomies.

    Quote
    The people in Lebanon, don't come from Arabia.


    None of them?

    Quote
    They know Arabic for the same reason the country with the highest amount of English speakers is India.


    So? All these disparate "facts" in no way address my above question i.e.:

    Quote
    Really? What about the Turks who overran Anatolia in centuries past? Or the Arabs of North Africa whose ancestors overran the region in several waves of conquest? How did the later European waves of conquest and colonisation differ from these?


    So, again, how did the Turkish conquest of Anatolia i.e. Turkey and the successive waves of conquest and colonisation of North Africa by the Arabs differ from the European conquest and colonisation of what is now the USA and Canada?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #343 - November 08, 2011, 06:06 AM

    Quote from: billy
    Certain tabloids generalise the issues, and this has to be taken into account. However, its impossible to deal with this situation without addressing how the EDL-ists take their cue from Islamists, Ummah Identity Politics, literalist Islam practised and prosletysed in Britain, Deobandi/Salafi/Tableegi/Jamaati style.


    As opposed to the "non-literalist" Pork-eating, beer-swilling, prayer avoiding, non-hijab-wearing, unrestrained-face-stuffing-during-Ramadan variety I take it?

    Quote
    Direct, total deterministic causality between Islam and Muslims, manichean binary division of society between Muslims / non Muslims - these ideas emanate directly from literalist Islam and Islamism.


    There are DIFFERENCES between "Islamism" and "literalist Islam"? Please do explain what these are....

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #344 - November 08, 2011, 06:33 AM

    Sorry, "the natives are only discussed" by whom exactly?


    Everyone, save a few.

    Quote
    Again, I can't make out what your "argument" is here. Who are these "complaining people" exactly?


    You.

    Quote
    Yes the language of the Arabs, an ethnic group centred on the ARABIAN peninsula of which they can be regarded as the NATIVE population. "Arab" is therefore primarily an ethno-geographical designation.


    It's primarily based on language today. If most Egyptians spoke Coptic, they wouldn't be in the Arab league.

    Quote
    So? What conclusion should be drawn from this? You have Europeans of varying hues and physiognomies.


    The Arab league has black people and white people, are you telling me there are ethnic Europeans who are black?

    Quote
    None of them?


    Unless they are immigrants from Saudi Arabia, none of them are from Arabia.

    Quote
    So, again, how did the Turkish conquest of Anatolia i.e. Turkey and the successive waves of conquest and colonisation of North Africa by the Arabs differ from the European conquest and colonisation of what is now the USA and Canada?


    Prove that the majority population of Turkey are not native to that region.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #345 - November 08, 2011, 06:48 AM

    Mooslims are evil.  Islam is a monolithic entity or if not always has the dangerous possibility to slip into fundamentalist extremism.  All Muslims are susceptible to this and therefore can not be trusted.  etc.  

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #346 - November 08, 2011, 07:19 AM

    As opposed to the "non-literalist" Pork-eating, beer-swilling, prayer avoiding, non-hijab-wearing, unrestrained-face-stuffing-during-Ramadan variety I take it?

    A friend of mine fits just this description, and still considers herself a Muslim, the same way many thoroughly irreligious people consider themselves Christians.

    I don't understand why you won't cut a little slack to people who have seen literalist Islam and said: 'No thanks. Now whose round is it?'.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #347 - November 08, 2011, 07:21 AM

    The reason is that if he cut them some slack, his whole world view would come tumbling down. He needs them to be Teh Borg. It's important to him. yes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #348 - November 08, 2011, 07:43 AM

    DH has yet to get his around the fact if someone is a law-abiding citizen, they aren't a threat. And if someone breaks the law, the law should be enforced. Freedom is doing and saying whatever you like, however absurd, as long as it's within the law. Until DH demonstrates that legislation has been supplanted by shariah, then his entire existance here, is a strawman.

    PS: "They might do so one day." <<< not an argument.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #349 - November 08, 2011, 11:33 AM

    Are you denying that there are shari'ah courts here, at the last count over a hundred.

    Arthur.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #350 - November 08, 2011, 11:33 AM

    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/tommy-robinson-michael-coren-nov-7-2011

    Arthur.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #351 - November 08, 2011, 01:09 PM

    Are you denying that there are shari'ah courts here, at the last count over a hundred.

    Arthur.


    1 - There are Jewish Beth Din courts, since the 1700s.

    2 - This wasn't called the Judaizing of Britain

    3 - In both cases, they are voluntary, and if either doesn't like it, they can take it to the civil courts.

    4 - The majority of cases are for divorce.

    5 - Any resolutions MUST comply with British law.

    6 - They're not law courts. They're courts of arbitration.

    7 - If British law recognized Islamic weddings, you'd still call it an Islamification. The existance of Muslims is Islamification to you.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #352 - November 08, 2011, 01:31 PM

    There are DIFFERENCES between "Islamism" and "literalist Islam"? Please do explain what these are....


    Parsing the difference between the two has nothing to do with diagnosing the union between the outlook that says Islam makes:

    Quote
    Direct, total deterministic causality between Islam and Muslims, manichean binary division of society between Muslims / non Muslims - these ideas emanate directly from literalist Islam and Islamism.


    Both Muslims (following Islam / Islamism) and non Muslims expressing what might be called the EDL-ist viewpoint do this.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #353 - November 08, 2011, 01:47 PM


    3 - In both cases, they are voluntary, and if either doesn't like it, they can take it to the civil courts.


    7 - If British law recognized Islamic weddings, you'd still call it an Islamification. The existance of Muslims is Islamification to you.


    I believe that the biggest disaster on this issue has been the excuse making for the catastrophe that is sharia, and the soft soaping and white washing of its coercive tyranny over women and children and dissenters, and denying the insidious effect and intention to privelige Islam and patriarchy over secular rights inside Britain today, in response to people like arthur1 and the EDL, in order to relativise the issue, and brush it under the carpet.

    It is a problem, and it needs to be nipped in the bud, and it needs to be addressed, and the only reason this forum exists associated to 'One Law For All' is because of the need to do that.

    Not to mention how the trajectory of separateness this embeds in society is utterly corrosive and creates the division and problems that the EDL feed off.

    You deal with this issue by addressing it head on, whilst simultaneously refuting the arguments of direct causation that the likes of athur1 make.

    If we don't do that, I believe we are part of the problem. It isn't difficult to do at all.

    Also, its not a question of British law recognising Islamic weddings, its a question of Muslims and Islamic institutions submitting fully to British marital law, like every other religious community does, as explained here:


    Quote


    There is nothing which prevents Muslim Marriages being registered under the Marriage Act 1949 but in practice only 120 Mosques are registered under the Act and unofficial estimates I have been given suggest that only around one third of the Muslim Marriage ceremonies (Nikah) performed in Britain are registered under the Marriage Act. The remaining unregistered wedding ceremonies are in fact illegal under s75(2)(ii) of the Marriage Act and the Imams involved could face up to 5 years imprisonment but it is a crime the Police seem to simply ignore

    This issue of unregistered marriages appears to be a problem which is unique to the Muslim community and my information is that Sikh Gurdwaras and Hindu Temples have happily registered under the Marriage Act so as to ensure that their marriage ceremonies are legally valid. Similarly Rabbis, Catholic Priests etc all insist either that a marriage is legally registered at the same time as the religious ceremony or that a civil marriage certificate is produced before any religious ceremony can go ahead.

    The consequence of these Muslim Marriages not being registered is that the wife is, in law, merely a co-habitant with few property rights. In those circumstances a Sharia Tribunal may provide the woman with the only route she has to get justice from her "husband" by going to a Tribunal that can exert moral, but not legal, pressure on him to do what is right. As for divorce, since the couple have never been married in the eyes of the Civil law the question of how they might get a religious divorce is not a Civil law matter. If however all Muslim marriages were legally registered then the Divorce (Religious Marriages) Act 2002 could be used (as it is in cases of Jewish Marriage) in order to ensure that a Civil Divorce was not finalised until the religious divorce had been consented to.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/08/religion-sharia-marriage-registration-islam



    Just because someone like arthur1 who advocates for the EDL says something about the issue of sharia should never mean that it is brushed under the carpet. It needs to be addressed in its own right, on its own terms, without apology or white washing defensiveness.

    Denying the problem does not make it dissapear, nor does it make EDL-ism dissapear.

    We have to deal with both, and repudiate both, or else we become a part of the problem.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #354 - November 08, 2011, 01:52 PM

    1 - There are Jewish Beth Din courts, since the 1700s.

    2 - This wasn't called the Judaizing of Britain

    3 - In both cases, they are voluntary, and if either doesn't like it, they can take it to the civil courts.

    4 - The majority of cases are for divorce.

    5 - Any resolutions MUST comply with British law.

    6 - They're not law courts. They're courts of arbitration.

    7 - If British law recognized Islamic weddings, you'd still call it an Islamification. The existance of Muslims is Islamification to you.



    There is the issue that a few of the Shariah courts have been exceeding their remit in a way that the Beth Din courts never have by ruling on criminal cases (spousal assault etc) and many immigrant women are not aware of their actual rights, so make an uninformed consent and so will often receive unfair treatment. ALL arbitration courts should be open to monitoring of all of their cases and rulings to ensure compliance with british laws.. and I know which of teh two will obfuscate inquiries the most

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #355 - November 08, 2011, 01:57 PM

    But that's why I mentioned the Beth Din.

    I don't particularly SUPPORT religious courts of arbitration. However I do believe in equality and fairness. When you ban the shariah ones, and ignore the Jewish ones, THEN you've made special priveleges. Whereas now, they simply utilize the same rights Jews have. Either they both have them, or neither of them do. Either way, it has to be fair.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #356 - November 08, 2011, 02:00 PM


    There is the issue that a few of the Shariah courts have been exceeding their remit in a way that the Beth Din courts never have by ruling on criminal cases (spousal assault etc) and many immigrant women are not aware of their actual rights, so make an uninformed consent and so will often receive unfair treatment. ALL arbitration courts should be open to monitoring of all of their cases and rulings to ensure compliance with british laws.. and I know which of teh two will obfuscate inquiries the most


    The solution for the problem, monitoring to ensure compliance is what's needed then.

    Knowing who will obfuscate inquiries should not determine laws, a chav will more likely hold court in contempt, but until they do so, they are innocent.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #357 - November 08, 2011, 02:04 PM

    Quote
    However I do believe in equality and fairness


    The quickest way to drive a stake through the heart of equality and fairness is to allow the continuing drift into sharia arbitration with the attendant coercive patriarchy and embedding of the tyranny of religious writ over secular settlements for the vulnerable and the empowerment of the Deobandi culture in our cities.

    What else could you do to turn the clock back on the hundreds of years of progress it took to get to the stage we are now at as far as women's rights, equality legislation, and secularism are concerned, than the entrenchment of this claim?

    Incredible how we have reached this stage.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #358 - November 08, 2011, 02:08 PM

    The solution for the problem, monitoring to ensure compliance is what's needed then.


    Two thirds of British Muslim weddings are not registered under the marriage act - in contrast to every other religion's institutions complying with it fully.

    The normative mode is that Islamic institutions are by a majority refusing to integrate with key aspects of secular British law in matters of domestic law.

    No other religious community does this.






    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: The heart of the EDL army is online, not on the streets
     Reply #359 - November 08, 2011, 02:10 PM

    The quickest way to drive a stake through equality is punishing Musims who do NOT do what you mentioned. Don't mind tackling those that abuse the privelege.

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
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