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 Topic: How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?

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  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     OP - January 30, 2013, 08:18 PM
    http://jezebel.com/5977025/unhappy-with-your-gross-vagina-why-not-try-the-barbie

    Seriously, I'd like to know people's opinions on this. Socially, FGM is completely unacceptable and MGM is becoming less common/acceptable, but now labiaplasty is all the rage? The procedure and all its implications are simply disgusting, are they not?

    ETA:
    Quote from: Luthiel on January 30, 2013, 09:10 PM
    I worded my original post poorly. I meant the existence of the procedure, and its implications, are disgusting. That is, that women are made to feel such a procedure is necessary enough that it's become common enough to be a named procedure.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #1 - January 30, 2013, 08:29 PM
    It's mental. This comment sums it up perfectly.

    Quote
    "Well, she looks 100x's better after she had her nose job, face lift, boob job, liposuction, tooth veneers, tummy tuck, Botox, eye lift, spray tan, butt implants, lip injections, hair extensions, Brazilian wax, anal bleaching and labiaplasty, but have you seen her Skenes Ducts? Gross. She needs to get those things snipped ASAP, or no man will ever want to be with her."

    It never stops, is what I'm saying, because the problems not with "you," it's with other people, and trying to fix other people's problems by changing yourself just isn't going to work.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #2 - January 30, 2013, 08:31 PM
    Nothing wrong at all with having those lips. I think they look normal and good and don't understand why someone would want to get them chopped off. I can understand though if a women wants to get it done just for herself if they are unusually big and look really odd. Shit I might get a partial circumcision if I had a massive foreskin that looked like a floppy sock... or like this guy Tongue lol

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #3 - January 30, 2013, 08:32 PM
    Its completely messed up.  But I'm afraid it is different to FGM.  Its not being inflicted on children for a start.  
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #4 - January 30, 2013, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 30, 2013, 08:32 PM
    Its completely messed up.  But I'm afraid it is different to FGM.  Its not being inflicted on children for a start.  


    Yep. Agreed. This stuff is extremely stupid, but it is not something being forced upon someone without their consent. Consent doesn't mean someone will always make good choices, just that they have the right to make choices as informed adults. Even if they are misinformed. FGM and MGM are practiced on children who can't legally consent anyway. That's what is the worst thing about them. The gender conformist BS that many women, and men too, practice is problematic but it needs to be dealt with via social dialogue, education, challenging gender norms and beauty standards like this article is trying to do. It's not the same as FGM and MGM which are pure child abuse and as such should be, if they're not already, deemed criminal acts against children.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #5 - January 30, 2013, 08:41 PM
    These comparisons of FGM with (insert vain surgical procedure here) made by Westerners always remind me of Germaine Greer writing that banning FGM in Africa was akin to "an attack on [African] cultural identity" and hacking off little girls' genitals is like getting a tattoo. Labiaplasty is something that overly self-conscious adult women CHOOSE to do and sad as it may be, its not at all comparable to FGM. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #6 - January 30, 2013, 08:57 PM
    Quote from: Luthiel on January 30, 2013, 08:18 PM
    The procedure and all its implications are simply disgusting, are they not?

    There is a whole world of difference between a consenting adult taking it upon herself to get cosmetic changes to part of their body, and a non-consenting child being forced into it.

    While the procedures may be superficially the same medically (depending on where in the world you are), it is not necessarily the procedure itself that is wrong. What it takes for wrongness to enter the equation is the abuse of sovereignty over one's own body. Lack of consent can make even the most innocuous of things become an abuse. Something done out of consensual, informed choice is entirely different to having something inflicted upon you.

    Moreover, there is an aggressor and victim dynamic in FGM which cosmetic surgery entirely lacks. This alone is a huge game changer. Unless someone has been coerced or forced into cosmetic surgery they do not want, where is the wrongness in the procedure?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #7 - January 30, 2013, 09:06 PM
    I absolutely agree, the issue of consent is the main and most important difference. However, I'm struck at the difference in attitude toward labiaplasty vs circumcision (mostly MGM), and how it seems to me it should be the opposite. While I think it's disgusting women are made to feel they need to resort to such measures to be beautiful, they should have the right to choose to do it without being looked down on. But they are looked down on. And when it comes to child abuse, people should be up in arms over the practice of circumcision. Yet is is considered perfectly acceptable.

    And Al-Alethia, I hope you don't think I'm trying to make light of FGM. I am actually vehemently opposed to both FGM and MGM, both of which are equally repulsive and not at all in the same vein as labiaplasty when it comes to consent. But as I said above, I was more interested in the comparison of attitudes and social acceptance, not the actual practices themselves.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #8 - January 30, 2013, 09:10 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on January 30, 2013, 08:57 PM
    There is a whole world of difference between a consenting adult taking it upon herself to get cosmetic changes to part of their body, and a non-consenting child being forced into it.

    While the procedures may be superficially the same medically (depending on where in the world you are), it is not necessarily the procedure itself that is wrong. What it takes for wrongness to enter the equation is the abuse of sovereignty over one's own body. Lack of consent can make even the most innocuous of things become an abuse. Something done out of consensual, informed choice is entirely different to having something inflicted upon you.

    Moreover, there is an aggressor and victim dynamic in FGM which cosmetic surgery entirely lacks. This alone is a huge game changer. Unless someone has been coerced or forced into cosmetic surgery they do not want, where is the wrongness in the procedure?

    You're right Ishina, and I worded my original post poorly. I meant the existence of the procedure, and its implications, are disgusting. That is, that women are made to feel such a procedure is necessary enough that it's become common enough to be a named procedure.

    As for the victim dynamic in FGM, I'd say the same issue is true of MGM: both procedures are inflicted on persons unable to give consent. One is simply more socially acceptable than the other. However, there is nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery for a consenting adult.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #9 - January 30, 2013, 09:11 PM
    I just read the article and I must admit that despite acknowledging that "vaginal rejuvenation" isn't more "wrong" than say, rhinoplasty (something I'd probably do if I had the money), there's just something uniquely sad about women hacking off their bits. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #10 - January 30, 2013, 09:14 PM
    It is sad, isn't it.... I'd never want to lose those awesome, amazing nerve endings.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #11 - January 30, 2013, 09:22 PM
    Oh, I see your point now Luthiel. It is quite interesting. I can't help but feel some pity for those who undergo labiaplasty; particularly young girls who do so because they've been mocked or because they feel like their vulva would repulse potential partners. 

    I watched a documentary on labiaplasty not too long ago and in it a girl got her labia cut; it was painful (and sometimes bleeding) for weeks, and all this because some friends and her sister used to joke about her vulva (don't ask me how all these people saw it in the first place). 

    MGM doesn't really compare to most forms of FGM though. I don't believe the two are equally repulsive. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #12 - January 30, 2013, 09:24 PM
    I suppose the next thing will be getting your arms shortened to Barbie proportions.  parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #13 - January 30, 2013, 09:26 PM
    …I'd prefer the being forever young and hot, with a forever young and hot boyfriend to match, and living in a mansion in Malibu part. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #14 - January 30, 2013, 09:28 PM
    Since when is Barbie hot? Cheesy
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #15 - January 30, 2013, 09:32 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on January 30, 2013, 09:24 PM
    I suppose the next thing will be getting your arms shortened to Barbie proportions.  parrot

    Why not the whole body?



    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20055694-10391704.html
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #16 - January 30, 2013, 09:52 PM
    Just for the record - I loved playing with my Barbie doll when I was a child, and guess what?  Like any normal little girl, I never thought she was anything other than a toy.  I loved playing football with the two boys who lived down the road too, even though they usually made me be goal keeper.  And I never grew up to think I should be surgically enhanced to look like a goal keeper, or take orders from boys.

    There's something deeper going in the heads of women who think they should look like Barbie.  If you banned Barbie dolls they would be surgically enhancing themselves to look like a slice of toast or something.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #17 - January 30, 2013, 09:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on January 30, 2013, 09:28 PM
    Since when is Barbie hot? Cheesy

    She has a nice enough figure with no pimples, blemishes, body hair, etc. I'm vain and obsessed with my body-image so skinny = perfect to me. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #18 - January 30, 2013, 09:56 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on January 30, 2013, 09:52 PM
    If you banned Barbie dolls they would be surgically enhancing themselves to look like a slice of toast or something.


     Cheesy

    You mean like Cassandra?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXiY1_H7NkQ
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #19 - January 30, 2013, 09:58 PM
     Cheesy
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #20 - January 30, 2013, 09:59 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on January 30, 2013, 09:55 PM
    She has a nice enough figure.


    Really?

    Quote from: Luthiel on January 30, 2013, 09:32 PM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20055694-10391704.html

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #21 - January 30, 2013, 10:01 PM
    To be fair, that life-size model looks like no Barbie I've ever seen.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #22 - January 30, 2013, 10:05 PM
    ^I don't know where the heck that thing came from but I seem to remember Barbie looking something like this:


  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #23 - January 30, 2013, 10:06 PM
    I loved playing with dolls too but I too never felt like I wanted to look like Barbie; it's odd isn't it? People wanting to look like a piece of plastic. I think it has more to do with Barbie being modelled after what would be considered conventionally attractive: thin, blonde, etc rather than what is considered conventionally attractive being derived from Barbie. 
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #24 - January 30, 2013, 10:10 PM
    Barbie is whatever shape will make Mattel the most money.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #25 - January 30, 2013, 10:13 PM
    Quote from: Al-Alethia on January 30, 2013, 10:05 PM
    ^I don't know where the heck that thing came from but I seem to remember Barbie looking something like this:

    (Clicky for piccy!)



    I guess my age is showing because those must be newer Barbies Cheesy

    Here's what I remember:


    And here's a comparison:
    Attached image is missing * barbie-90s-vs-00s.jpg (58.5 KB, 800x600 - viewed 9455 times.)
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #26 - January 30, 2013, 10:19 PM
     90s Barbie looks like a man with two lumps of silicone on his chest.  I don't remember my Barbie looking like that, she would be 80s Barbie.

    Lara Croft always looked like that - freakishly skinny bod, with elephant sized tits.  Nobody blames Lara Croft for these body image problems among girls though, for some reason.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #27 - January 30, 2013, 10:27 PM
    Too late to criticise Lara Croft now anyway. That window has closed. The modern Lara Croft is actually pretty awesome looking. Girl next door looks. Practical, functional survival clothing. Body shape that actually looks like a human. Average size tits, not massive back-breaking badonkadonks. She actually looks like a person.  

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #28 - January 30, 2013, 10:31 PM
    Though, there is something to be said about modern video game graphics. Realism just wasn't a design option a few years ago.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • How is "The Barbie" different from circumcision?
     Reply #29 - January 30, 2013, 10:43 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on January 30, 2013, 10:27 PM
    Too late to criticise Lara Croft now anyway. That window has closed. The modern Lara Croft is actually pretty awesome looking. Girl next door looks. Practical, functional survival clothing. Body shape that actually looks like a human. Average size tits, not massive back-breaking badonkadonks. She actually looks like a person.  

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    She does now, but she didn't always.  I'm just wondering why Barbie gets all the blame, when she really hasn't been any worse than Lara Croft if you look at her throughout the years.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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