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 Topic: Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet

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  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #60 - August 05, 2013, 07:47 PM

    Well first Jews are so peaceful. They have been persecuted around the ages but they are so peaceful. They never shove their faith up your throat, in fact I remember my French teacher was Jewish and she told us all that we need to search for what we believe in and what we feel comfortable in. She said that there is no right or wrong religion. She is (a little bit) my inspiration to leave, so I have started reading Genisis, and it's alright. I suppose the reason I like jewdisim is because it's similarites to Islam, but without the restrictions. And I am pretty sure if you ask Jews if they 100% believe that the Torah is 100% true they will say no, while Muslims will get defensive and say that the Quran is the word of god unaltered, but I believe that with such nonsense written in it it can't possibly be what god said because god is kind and loving, and I don't think that god would "curse a group of people" like my parent would always say about people of Israel. Plus there is the fact that Jews believe that Jews  don't go to hell. So that's why it appealed to me, they have held on to their religion for thousands of years, amongst struggle, so it must be worth it, there must be a grain of truth to it Smiley
    Now I think that because I don't live in the Middle East, I get the chance to discover new ideas, which is highly discouraged. I suggest to you to look into the religions of the world and find what you like, and if you don't like anything you can just continue to believe in god without an organised religion. You can just do good in the world, help the needy, be kind to others and focus on making the world a better place instead of doing meaningless rituals. I am sure god will be satasfied with good people, even if they didn't pray for him 5 times a day or pay a great sum of money to travel to Mecca. If I can't find a religion that fits me so be it, I believe in god and I have common sense from right or wrong, and that's all I need.

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #61 - August 05, 2013, 09:38 PM

    I never really had any interest in judaism,back when I really believed in islam I always thought jews were bad people,but now after thinking outside of the box,they're not that bad,on the contrary they seem more peaceful then muslims.I just started the bible and I will go on and read Genesis if I like a religion,why not try it out ? In the end,life is just multiple experiences.
    And I totally agree with you on that last point.I might create my own religion haha,who knows ?
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #62 - August 05, 2013, 09:59 PM

    Well I hope you find your inner peace!
    Oh, so sorry, my manners are slipping, here is your welcome parrot! parrot

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #63 - August 05, 2013, 10:12 PM

    I was just about to say inshallah  Cheesy
    Thank you !
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #64 - August 05, 2013, 10:33 PM

    Plus there is the fact that Jews believe that Jews  don't go to hell.


    Hi Wiselyskeptical,

    This reminded me of this post by our very own happymurtad why "Hell" might just be an error in translation from the Torah into what is known as the "Old testament" for the Christians and which was later relayed to ol' Mo for him to add some extra nastiness and drama to the general idea of eternal torment:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=24124

    Quote
    Instead, we find no references to anything resembling Islamic hell in the Taurah (Torah). As the alleged destination for countless a wayward soul, jahannam is curiously absent from the writings of the earliest Hebrew prophets. Instead, the word that is sometimes translated as “hell” in Hebrew scripture is the Hebrew word “sheol,” which actually just means “grave” or “pit,” and is also translated as such into English many times.

    While these alternate translations seem to lend credence to the idea of the early inception of a jahannam-styled hell, sheol was the destination of all living men, regardless of their righteousness. It is defined by early biblical scholars as simply the place or state of the dead. It is a shadowy, non-physical existence that encompasses the gloom and decay of death, but does not imply torment.


    Islam without the fear of Hell? Well, still plenty of nastinesses, but no fear of Hell, so who would care about all the rules anyway? I mean, all you girls can aspire to get in Jannah is to be reunited with your husband and you get 72 new very young, wide-eyed and large-breasted friends of the female persuasion.

    Regarding Judaism, if you look at their history before the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem in 637 CE the Persians, allied with the Jews, conquered the city in 614 CE and the Jews reportedly slaughtered 60.000 Christians. In 628 Christians were the bosses again and then forcefully converted or killed the Jews who didn't escape persecution.
    In 637 CE Muslim Arabs then finally arrived from Arabia and it actually went comparatively peaceful.

    The Jews have been kind of laying low since then (if we leave out Palestine of course).

    And the parrot knows best.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #65 - August 05, 2013, 10:39 PM

    Origin of Satan

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqjS5528KdU

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #66 - August 05, 2013, 10:53 PM

    Nikolaj, I think what you have given me ties up nicely with the video from Moi. What I think is that the story of Satan is just a story of learning, don't let your pride sway you into evil etc. We humans have our own inner evils, and I don't think god is sadistic to create an almighty source of evil so he can plot against us.

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #67 - August 06, 2013, 02:58 AM

    I just watched the videos that you linked Quod,and I just find that they're simply hilarious and really show how absurd and immoral God as most people view him is.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #68 - August 06, 2013, 03:06 AM

    Hello livelifeoutloud. Welcome to the forum and have a rabbit!  bunny

    I hope that you continue to research religions, especially with an eye towards comparative study. That's one of the things that eventually completed my apostasy from Islam, so maybe I'm a bit biased though.  Tongue Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time here!  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #69 - August 06, 2013, 05:04 AM

    So that's why it appealed to me, they have held on to their religion for thousands of years, amongst struggle, so it must be worth it, there must be a grain of truth to it Smiley


    I disagree. Just because the jewish religion has been around for millennia doesn't mean there's truth. I can ring off a few right now that have been around for thousands of years and has followers either small or large today. Hinduism. Buddhism. Witchcraft. Ásatrú. Odinism. Druidism. Jainism. Zoroastrianism. Taoism. Ridnoviry. Kemetism. Gnosticism. Confucianism. Animism. The list just goes on and on.

    There are also people that for whatever reason still worship the Roman/Greek gods. There are still people who follow the Egyptian gods.

    just because they've been around for a while doesn't mean there's any truth to them. Next time there's a thunder storm you may as well  argue if it was Zeus or Thor. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe in god if it's something that gives you comfort, just that it doesn't have to be the be all and end all of life.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #70 - August 06, 2013, 08:45 AM


    Well if the spiritual part of it may be sketchy at least there is some social aspect to it. I like Jews, in fact lots of my friends are Jews and I like the social group they have. They are not as hostile as my Muslim friends Tongue

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #71 - August 06, 2013, 08:52 AM

    Jews are cool, most are secular. Ran into a few orthodox ones, horrible experience.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #72 - August 06, 2013, 12:13 PM

    Great to see how you think in your age and in that specific country. I would love to meet you and ppl like you, even if it just on Facebook. The process towards refusing any religion is start to think. But thinking takes time, so some ppl need more time to see that simple fact.

    I don't talk to uncircumcised man! It's haram. But I love to talk to uncircumcised woman! Smiley
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #73 - August 06, 2013, 12:28 PM

    Which one of us are you addressing?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #74 - August 06, 2013, 08:52 PM

    "Instead, we find no references to anything resembling Islamic hell in the Taurah (Torah). As the alleged destination for countless a wayward soul, jahannam is curiously absent from the writings of the earliest Hebrew prophets. Instead, the word that is sometimes translated as ?hell? in Hebrew scripture is the Hebrew word ?sheol,? which actually just means ?grave? or ?pit,? and is also translated as such into English many times.

    While these alternate translations seem to lend credence to the idea of the early inception of a jahannam-styled hell, sheol was the destination of all living men, regardless of their righteousness. It is defined by early biblical scholars as simply the place or state of the dead. It is a shadowy, non-physical existence that encompasses the gloom and decay of death, but does not imply torment."

    Piggybacking on this, I have a question. I've been riven with doubts that the Quran is actually a "improved edition" of the Bible which in turn is a "improved edition" of the Torah.....which begs the question: Who wrote the Torah? Who is the author? Some ancient wizened Jewish clerics who sat down once upon a time and decided to "create" God and "write" his words in a book called the Torah?

    Is it all a grand conspiracy enabled by the suspension of critical thinking?



  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #75 - August 06, 2013, 09:17 PM

    I'm a little surprised you're just now realising the quran is a rewrite of the bible, I was honestly under the assumption this wasn't something hidden. But yes, the bible is a rewrite of the torah with bits added on, the quran is a rewrite of the bible with bits added on. To someone not raised in the faith it's plain as day.

    Seeker, if I may, there are so many holy books and sacred texts. Who wrote the torah? I don't know. Who wrote the eddas? Who wrote the havamal? Who wrote the whatever other holy book or sacred text you want to mention? I genuinely don't know how many sacred texts there are and they were written so long ago we have no way of knowing. Most of them were oral tradition passed from one generation to the next, which means the stories would be different from the original anyway.

    Ultimately the torah, the original divine text of the god of abraham, comes from the exact same place the thousands of other divine texts of other gods come from.

    I'm sorry, I really wish I could say it gently, but I'm not sure how. The intention behind the teachings may of been good, they may have been early attempts at something like the human right act, I'm really not saying it was something purely malicious, but I honestly think, intentions aside, they all come from liars and madmen.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #76 - August 06, 2013, 09:28 PM

    Some morons made up absolute monotheism and then other morons decided to write it down so it couldn't be changed.

    Then it all went to Hell.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #77 - August 06, 2013, 09:30 PM

    skeptical, jews are incredibly peaceful.. damn they have so much fun killing those palestineans.. so peaceful  Cheesy

  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #78 - August 06, 2013, 09:39 PM

    "Ultimately the torah, the original divine text of the god of abraham, comes from the exact same place the thousands of other divine texts of other gods come from"

    But there is clearly a shared similarity in the Quran, the Bible, and the Torah. Thou shall not kill, for example. Sabbath, also.

    It's not the case with the Hindu holy book(not sure what its called) or the Buddhit

    So what I'm trying to understand is: who is the author of, as you put it, "original divine text of the god of Abraham"? Is it the God of Abraham? Or is it, as Nikolaj put it, some ancient morons who cooked up absolute monotheism, One True God & His One True Religion & His One True Holy Book?

    If it was some ancient morons who wrote it....who are they? What's they're cultural background? Jewish? Pagan? Bronze-aged Greco-Romans?

    Thanks for the replies btw, very enlightening.
  • Re: Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #79 - August 06, 2013, 09:46 PM

    skeptical, jews are incredibly peaceful.. damn they have so much fun killing those palestineans.. so peaceful  Cheesy


    This is your warning. If you say racist stuff like that again, you will get banned from here. Make a note of it.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #80 - August 06, 2013, 09:46 PM

    The bible and quran are so similar because they come from the same source, which is the torah. Keep in mind, jews christians and muslims are all part of the same spiritual family. Other religions that have gone through the same thing have the same result. The druidism and shamanism have the same similarity for the same reason. The different sects of hinduism, despite what you said, also share this. How can they not? They're based on the same basic story.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #81 - August 06, 2013, 09:47 PM

    "Instead, we find no references to anything resembling Islamic hell in the Taurah (Torah). As the alleged destination for countless a wayward soul, jahannam is curiously absent from the writings of the earliest Hebrew prophets. Instead, the word that is sometimes translated as ?hell? in Hebrew scripture is the Hebrew word ?sheol,? which actually just means ?grave? or ?pit,? and is also translated as such into English many times.

    While these alternate translations seem to lend credence to the idea of the early inception of a jahannam-styled hell, sheol was the destination of all living men, regardless of their righteousness. It is defined by early biblical scholars as simply the place or state of the dead. It is a shadowy, non-physical existence that encompasses the gloom and decay of death, but does not imply torment."

    Piggybacking on this, I have a question. I've been riven with doubts that the Quran is actually a "improved edition" of the Bible which in turn is a "improved edition" of the Torah.....which begs the question: Who wrote the Torah? Who is the author? Some ancient wizened Jewish clerics who sat down once upon a time and decided to "create" God and "write" his words in a book called the Torah?

    Is it all a grand conspiracy enabled by the suspension of critical thinking?






    There is no simple way of explaining this, but the history of the Jewish Bible and the New Testament is extremely interesting. If you are an ex-Muslim viewing the situation from the simple, traditional narrative of Allah “revealing” the Torah to Musa and the Injeel to Isa, boy have you got a shock in store for you.

     Far from being the unaltered words of an all knowing god revealed in a single instance to some ancient prophet, the two books are very much a product of many human hands writing for very different audiences within a great variance of circumstances over a span of thousands of years. The Middle East was simply running rife with creative authors with not much better to do besides writing down their own delusions and projecting them onto others.

    There has been a lot of work written in the field of biblical criticism. The works of scholar Bart Ehrman are a good introduction to the field, but there are many others. I personally find the subject extremely fascinating, particularly as it exposes just how amateur and hodgepodge a work the Qur’an really is. It’s hard to be overly impressed with the Qur’an when you know what else is out there. It’s also hard to accept that Muhammad was unique when you see what all of the other delusional nutcases were capable of writing.

    I’d suggest that all ex-Muslims read the Jewish Bible and the Christian New Testament at least once. If you are familiar with the Qur’an, it’ll help to show that far from simply being “corrupted revelations,” those works are actually of an entirely different nature and often present entirely different world views from those of Muhammad.

    What is also interesting is to read about the non canonical scriptures and the heretical gospels and the process by which the books that now make up what we call “The Bible” were collected. As usual, politics and control play a huge part. There is really interesting stuff out there. Often times, the stuff that was not included is the most interesting and the most telling. It also shines some light on the origins of the legends of the Qur’an and its sources.  
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #82 - August 06, 2013, 10:21 PM

    Zach, please leave politics aside. This is a site for people to express their opinions and ideas, and it's not meant to offend people, not even Muslims themselves. Some of my best friends growing up were from Palastine, I lived in Jordan for a year and a half and had strong bonds with them. Some of the most inspirational people to me are Jewish, my teacher tought more about life than French conjugations. I would never judge one of them based upon foolish greed represented by their governments.

    Just like Johnny Flynn said, the breath I've taken and the one I must to go on.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #83 - August 07, 2013, 10:38 AM

    welcome my Morrocan lil sister, here's your parrot  parrot
    not an atheist yet? well, ex-muslim ≠ atheist
    there are other views beside atheism you know, like agnosticism, pantheism, deism, theism, naturalism etc
    there are plenty for you to "choose" (i don't believe in choices though Tongue )
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #84 - August 07, 2013, 01:32 PM

    You forgot revolutionary socialism...

    yes
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #85 - August 07, 2013, 03:49 PM

    Which one of us are you addressing?


    livelifeoutloud

    I don't talk to uncircumcised man! It's haram. But I love to talk to uncircumcised woman! Smiley
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #86 - August 07, 2013, 09:15 PM

    About hell,back when I was a kid I use to gather with all of my cousins and we would talk about how bad it is,I'd get traumatized everytime they'd mention boiling water,chains,fire.But still,hell seems less boring compared to heaven (eternity eating food and having sex,no thank you) and so much more crowded.Sounds like a party haha Cheesy

    And I just finished Genesis and half-way through Exodus and I agree,the Quran is so similar to the Torah.

    Serenity : Thank you,my journey has just started.But I have to ask,do you know any atheist from Morocco ?

    Hikaru : Thanks,yeah I still need to see what those are all about.
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #87 - August 08, 2013, 12:33 AM

    Of course it's similar, Mo based it on the same book. There are actually a few differences in the biblical old testament to the actual torah, or so I've been led to believe.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #88 - August 08, 2013, 08:16 AM

    Couldn't stop laughing when I saw this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORpiAc1f_A

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi ! Im not an atheist ... yet
     Reply #89 - August 08, 2013, 06:10 PM

    Haha  Cheesy That guy is a fucking genius !
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