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Theme Changer

 Topic: School Prayer

 (Read 13041 times)
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  • School Prayer
     OP - October 08, 2013, 02:39 AM
    I do not support teachers leading students in prayer during class for various reasons one of them being the diversity of beliefs amongst different Christian denominations. However some schools are participating in Muslim Awareness Month and as part of the curriculum of living as a Muslim for a month students must perform Muslim prayers. I find this to be a double standard. It is not ok for teachers to lead students in Christian prayers during class but it is somehow ok for students to do Muslim prayers during class. I mean what the fuck?
  • School Prayer
     Reply #1 - October 08, 2013, 03:18 AM
    As long as they give equal time to Satanism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and that body piercing religion, I have no problem with it. I mean, really, every religion that is legally registered in the United States should have their month.
    This would probably require a four year calendar or more.
    This is also a good argument on why we should have school year round. It's hard to give equal time to all religions without the summer months available.
    Learning Zoroastrianism will hopefully really help the kids learn about fire safety. They don't know anything about making fires yet. I wonder if the Peacock God will be part of that curriculum, or another month's feature?
    I hope the piercing month only comes once during my children's school career. I really don't want them to pierce more than their ears before they hit adulthood. Though I suppose if it's required, I will have to deal with it, and at least all the other kids will be doing it, too. That's always a good reason to have a piercing done.
    We will have lots of cool religious clutter in our house from this course of study. Ganesh would look nice next to our television, though of course he won't get equal worship.
    We could re-use the Voodoo dolls for Halloween decorations, I suppose. We can make those ourselves, too, and keep costs down.
    Good thing there are so few holidays in Satanism, the chance of having Satanic month on a Satanic holiday will be less and should keep sacrifices to a minimum.
    I am not sure what would happen during Catholic month. Incense and wafers and alcohol? Oh, confession. That's right. We could skip the therapist completely that month and just do Hail Marys or the like.
    Learning about Baha'Ullah's family schisms will be fascinating. But that might not be part of the religious life..
    I think I am actually looking forward to it, now.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #2 - October 08, 2013, 03:44 AM
    Good point three
  • School Prayer
     Reply #3 - October 08, 2013, 04:28 AM
    These initiatives are brought up for the same reasons I believe my own Islamic studies course was created. To undermine the rhetoric seen on TV these days. Sadly most of these do not teach people much about Islam but are for the sole purpose of countering reactionary positions with equally reactionary education. It would be much better to just create a proper religious studies course for high-school students.

    Sorry I am very disillusioned with my course. I would have been better off finding an accredited course rather than the hog wash that passes for education.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #4 - October 08, 2013, 07:35 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 08, 2013, 02:39 AM
    I do not support teachers leading students in prayer during class for various reasons one of them being the diversity of beliefs amongst different Christian denominations. However some schools are participating in Muslim Awareness Month and as part of the curriculum of living as a Muslim for a month students must perform Muslim prayers. I find this to be a double standard. It is not ok for teachers to lead students in Christian prayers during class but it is somehow ok for students to do Muslim prayers during class. I mean what the fuck?


    What!!!
    I get that they teach about Islam if they give time for other religions too, but making children do islamic rituals is disgusting. Not only islamic, but christian, jewish, buddhist, zoroastrianic and so on. I hope my country doesn't go nuts and start pushing crap like that to us. Like really, what's next?
    Gay awereness with required to have gay sex?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • School Prayer
     Reply #5 - October 08, 2013, 03:10 PM
    It's crazy
  • School Prayer
     Reply #6 - October 09, 2013, 12:16 AM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on October 08, 2013, 07:35 AM
    What!!!
    I get that they teach about Islam if they give time for other religions too, but making children do islamic rituals is disgusting. Not only islamic, but christian, jewish, buddhist, zoroastrianic and so on. I hope my country doesn't go nuts and start pushing crap like that to us. Like really, what's next?
    Gay awereness with required to have gay sex?


    I am sorry. I was just pointing out that Islam is singled out as a featured religion in classrooms and no other religion is required study like that. I was poking fun. There is no curriculum as I described.
    And Islam, though often forced, is still a choice. Whereas being gay is not a choice. 
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #7 - October 09, 2013, 12:32 AM
    Well if people want their children to learn about religion in school then create a religious studies class.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #8 - October 09, 2013, 12:40 AM
    We should petition to have mandatory blasphemy sessions in school so that kids can appreciate the atheist experience.  yes
  • School Prayer
     Reply #9 - October 09, 2013, 01:07 AM
    Some schools here actually have students read The God Delusion for GCSE, or so I'm told.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #10 - October 09, 2013, 01:11 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 09, 2013, 12:40 AM
    We should petition to have mandatory blasphemy sessions in school so that kids can appreciate the atheist experience.  yes


    Pat Condell made a video that people should insult religion every ten times a day.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #11 - October 09, 2013, 01:11 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 09, 2013, 01:07 AM
    Some schools here actually have students read The God Delusion for GCSE, or so I'm told.


    Wow
  • School Prayer
     Reply #12 - October 09, 2013, 01:13 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 09, 2013, 01:07 AM
    Some schools here actually have students read The God Delusion for GCSE, or so I'm told.


    Wait, what? A book recommendation? Let me write this down..
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #13 - October 09, 2013, 01:31 AM
    Well, religious education in the UK isn't about indoctrination, just about education. Looking at things from another point of view fits nicely.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #14 - October 09, 2013, 01:31 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 09, 2013, 01:11 AM
    Pat Condell made a video that people should insult religion every ten times a day.


    Good man.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #15 - October 09, 2013, 01:36 AM
    Oh, and three, just to give you an idea of what's written, here's a few quotes from the book.

    Quote
    The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully


    Quote
    We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.


    Quote
    There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.


    Quote
    One of the truly bad effects of religion is that it teaches us that it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding


    More here http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3044365-the-god-delusion
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #16 - October 09, 2013, 01:39 AM
    And just want to add this one, because I'm in perfect agreement with it.

    Quote
    Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God's approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment? That's not morality, that's just sucking up, apple-polishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base though.


    I genuinely agree with that sentiment. If the only reason you're good is because you'll be punished if you aren't, if the only thing stopping you from unleashing evil onto the world is a fear of hell, you are not a good person, you are not moral, if you say "if I didn't believe in god I'd go out, I'd steal, I'd rape, I'd kill" you're a monster in a cage.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #17 - October 09, 2013, 02:03 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 09, 2013, 01:39 AM
    And just want to add this one, because I'm in perfect agreement with it.

    Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God's approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment? That's not morality, that's just sucking up, apple-polishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base though.

    I genuinely agree with that sentiment. If the only reason you're good is because you'll be punished if you aren't, if the only thing stopping you from unleashing evil onto the world is a fear of hell, you are not a good person, you are not moral, if you say "if I didn't believe in god I'd go out, I'd steal, I'd rape, I'd kill" you're a monster in a cage.


    I use this argument, or a variation of it often. If one can be "good" without religious guidance but does not believe shouldn't "God" be more impressed that one was able to do so using their own reasoning. Rather than basing the perception of "good" based solely on belief. To me it's like the difference between someone reporting a fire with someone that runs into the fire to save peoples lives. Actions speak louder than words.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #18 - October 09, 2013, 02:08 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 09, 2013, 01:31 AM
    Good man.


    I like Condell even though he criticizes Christianity.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #19 - October 09, 2013, 02:32 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 09, 2013, 01:39 AM
    And just want to add this one, because I'm in perfect agreement with it.

    I genuinely agree with that sentiment. If the only reason you're good is because you'll be punished if you aren't, if the only thing stopping you from unleashing evil onto the world is a fear of hell, you are not a good person, you are not moral, if you say "if I didn't believe in god I'd go out, I'd steal, I'd rape, I'd kill" you're a monster in a cage.


    Oh yes, I am with you on this.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #20 - October 09, 2013, 02:56 PM
    Quote from: three on October 09, 2013, 12:16 AM
    I am sorry. I was just pointing out that Islam is singled out as a featured religion in classrooms and no other religion is required study like that. I was poking fun. There is no curriculum as I described.
    And Islam, though often forced, is still a choice. Whereas being gay is not a choice. 


    I think you misunderstood something or I misunderstood something.
    I meant it is crazy that school makes someone do such personal things as prayers, especially when they might be atheist or even worse, other religions, when praying to God of the Quran is not only awkward and possibly scary, but a thing that scars them for long time.
    Just think some situation where some muslim would have to pray to Jesus. It would be terrible for him and he would be asking forgiveness from God rest of his life.

    Teaching religion at school: wonderful.
    Making people do prayers or other very personal stuff: disgusting.
    In my country we have a problem tho', that all people of Lutheran Church have to go to Lutheran religious class for 9 years even if they or their parents don't want. Others (like me) can go to class called "Worldview knownledge" where major religions and philosophies are equally taught.
    So we have problems too, but atleast no one is made to eat according to Islam/Judaism, perform prayers, do religious meditation, recite religious text or grow a beard because "God wants so".

    I understood your joke; I answered the opening post. No beef, homie? Tongue
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • School Prayer
     Reply #21 - October 10, 2013, 12:05 AM
    That is a relief. Jokes gone awry are hard to undo. No beef, homie. No meat, at all.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #22 - October 10, 2013, 12:07 AM
    So three, what did you think of the above quotes?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #23 - October 10, 2013, 02:30 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 10, 2013, 12:07 AM
    So three, what did you think of the above quotes?


    I would say I agree. But the last one does not go far enough. I don't think "satisfied with not understanding" is strong enough. I think you are defining faith, there. So it would be more than a virtue to not understand, to not question. I think it would be a requirement, I just don't know the right word. Not virtue. To believe without proof is faith. To not question, that is not a virtue. A tenet of faith? Willful blindness? Not virtue.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #24 - October 10, 2013, 02:37 AM
    That was the criticism.

    "One of the truly bad effects of religion is that it teaches us that it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding".

    Smiley
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #25 - October 10, 2013, 02:59 AM
    But it is an understatement. I think it should have been written stronger, something more than "virtue".
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #26 - October 10, 2013, 03:16 AM
    Ahhhhh, you need a Hitchens. One moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCHHfBeu0QE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQHxkX-tyYU

    Enjoy.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #27 - October 10, 2013, 03:22 AM
    First is about the three religions, switches between judaism, christianity and islam. Second is islam. Third is catholosism.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • School Prayer
     Reply #28 - October 10, 2013, 03:49 AM
    Ah. He is missed. I had to stop after the first one, because children wake up at ungodly hours and rob one of sleep, so I must get mine while they get theirs.

    I will watch the rest tomorrow.

    I will say, I kept waiting for him, at the beginning of the first one, to say something about Stockholm Syndrome. It would tie in nicely.

    Much appreciated!
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • School Prayer
     Reply #29 - October 10, 2013, 04:07 AM
    No worries.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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