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Theme Changer

 Topic: Help Me!

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  • Help Me!
     Reply #300 - February 15, 2014, 06:20 PM

    I agree Descent and S.A.M. There are billions of galaxies and trillions of planets older than than our galaxy and planet Earth so I do find your views rather unorthodox. I've spoken to many Muslims who have very different views to you. May I ask if you class yourself as a true Muslim and if so what sect? Hope I'm not being too nosey, just genuinely interested.

    Craig, I don't know how to tell you..I do not belong to any sect for studying of Islamic mysticism.. I wont say I am a true Muslim.. I'm just a human being like you. We are human, after all

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #301 - February 15, 2014, 06:22 PM

    S.A.M

    Do you know what mysticism means?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #302 - February 15, 2014, 06:30 PM

    Of course we are and it's fine believing in whatever you like but if you're a moral person who cares about humanity, you have to accept that many of the teachings in the Quran and Haddith are evil and have no place in today's society.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #303 - February 15, 2014, 07:03 PM

    Ooops  i said this about  S.A.M.
    S.A.M.   stands for   Sufi Annoying Momin..  

    and  S.A.M.  says
    .............. I'm just a human being like you. We are human, after all

     then i will change that Momin..  to... Man.

    So now   S.A.M.   stands for   "Sufi Annoying Man"..

    S.A.M  STOP ANNOYING FOLKS here...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #304 - February 15, 2014, 07:06 PM

    yeezevee

    I'm not annoyed by S.A.M



    S.A.M, please don't ignore me. I'm trying to understand your position, and in order to understand it, I have some clarifying questions that you would need to answer.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #305 - February 15, 2014, 07:13 PM

    I'm with Rami, your not annoying me, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Do you believe that the Quran is the perfect word of God and do you think what is written is fair? Do you think it would've been impossible for Mo to help formulate the Quran without divine inspiration?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #306 - February 16, 2014, 12:09 AM

    S.A.M

    Do you know what mysticism means?

    I know what mysticism meaning and I know what I am talking about.

    Oneness of Being.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #307 - February 16, 2014, 12:11 AM

    Quote from: S.A.M
    I know what mysticism meaning and I know what I am talking about.

    Good, so you can answer my questions about what you're talking about. I asked you lots of them. Please go ahead and answer any of them in any order. I don't care.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #308 - February 16, 2014, 12:19 AM

    Hi all, few comments.
    First of, respect others. I think S.A.M talks alot weird stuff but you could still be nicer to him, he's not bad person and without love and respect we're nothing. Also S.A.M, you could answer the questions more directly because it's quite hard to get what you're talking about with your off-topic metaphors etc.
    Second, why are you all talking about this stuff in my thread. I don't mean that I own this site and I don't think I'm above you or think that the attention should be on me, but isn't this thread still kinda about me and my questions/feelings?
    Third, RamiRustom, you are smart guy and you have good points but if you have those questions to me ask them in PM because in this thread I like to ask about Islam on my own terms.

    I got nothing but love for everyone of you, but please, if I could once ask, that you could create own thread for your own stuff.

    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #309 - February 16, 2014, 12:21 AM

    Relax Rami... I just woke up..A few hours ago I am so sleepy and need a rest. Right now, I am going out to send my kids to school.I'll be back soon.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #310 - February 16, 2014, 12:35 AM

    Siunaa is right. Open a new thread in the lounge or Religions & Gods section, instead of going off-topic here.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #311 - February 16, 2014, 12:41 AM

    Hi Siunaa we've all digressed from your original post but I know your concerns were about hell and I think I can disprove that if you're interested. Hell can't exist if you'd like to find out why? Again I've got love for everyone who treats people and animals how they deserve
  • Help Me!
     Reply #312 - February 16, 2014, 12:48 AM

    I'm interested.

    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #313 - February 16, 2014, 01:01 AM

     The concept of paradise and hell is impossible. Imagine you've been a perfect Muslim and very luckily end up paradise when you die. However, even though the rest of your family (who you love dearly I presume) have been perfect citizens, they didn't have belief in God so unfortunately they end up spending an eternity being tortured in hell (they were only on the planet for a very, very, very, short space of time). To be punished for eternity is ridiculous proving Allah is NOT forgivable or merciful, its disgustingly evil.  Would you still be in 'Paradise' knowing that they're being tortured for eternity? If that's not paradise to you then Allah has lied to you (or it doesn't exist). Again use probability on what's more realistic.

    Also why would the most powerful entity in the Universe be bothered if you believed in it or not? Surely it would be more concerned that you lived a good life and showed qualities like humanity, morality, loyalty, ethics etc and did your best to treat people and animals how they deserve. There are NO casualties in not praying apart from Allah's feelings and I'm pretty sure if it did exist, it is big enough to look after itself (it wouldn't  have feelings).

    Allah judges non belief as a worse sin than murder but how evil and twisted is that when considering the following; Allah has showed absolutely NO evidence to its existence and has even went to the trouble of providing evidence after evidence after evidence to its non existence (basically punishing people for using their curiosity and intelligence which apparently it gave us). Allah has also shown the invalidity of the Quran. Everyone knows that there are a multitude of contradictions and scientific inaccuracies in the Quran which prove that it is NOT the exact word of Allah.

    Some will say that some of the inaccuracies are because the Quran is being metaphorical and not literal or that it has been misinterpreted (usual ridiculous excuse). However the main description of how mankind was created (in its present form) through creationism is in complete contrast to evolution. Here's the bombshell though, evolution is NOT a 'theory' anymore, it's a 'FACT' (not just proved through fossil remains but through genetics etc) and Allah didn't just decide to miraculously create man, it took evolution and natural selection around 500 million years to achieve it.

    Why would Allah create the Universe around 13.8 billion years ago then do nothing for 9.2 billion years? Even then it created the Earth around 4.5 billion years ago but waited almost 4 billion years to create the simplest of life in the sea (why wait so long to create it, maybe because it happened through the long process of evolution and natural selection, NOT God?). Then Allah waited around 500 million more years to gradually evolve an ape with intelligence that would very gradually become the present day homosapien (in complete contrast to the Quran).

    Added to the fact that Allah chose the gender, age of death and whether that person would be good (go to paradise) or be bad ( go to hell for eternity) before that person was even born is just ridiculously and stupidly laughable (please take a moment and think about this rather than believing what you've been told).

    Here's an example of how ridiculous this is, the Quran states that homosexuals should be given the death penalty (they will also spend eternity in hell), however it's been been scientifically proven that homosexuality is not a choice but it occurs in the womb and they're born to be naturally attracted to the same gender. So how evil is Allah to purposely make many people homosexual knowing that they will be put to death and spend an eternity in hell.

    Please use your common sense and think rationally. The best feeling ever is when you find out that you're not a slave to Allah. You can actually have a positive influence on the World because you want to help people/animals because its the right thing to do because of your morals, not because of a fictional  monster. Love is so much more powerful than what the Quran ever did.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #314 - February 16, 2014, 04:49 AM

    Hi all, few comments.
    First of, respect others. I think S.A.M talks alot weird stuff but you could still be nicer to him, he's not bad person and without love and respect we're nothing. Also S.A.M, you could answer the questions more directly because it's quite hard to get what you're talking about with your off-topic metaphors etc.
    Second, why are you all talking about this stuff in my thread. I don't mean that I own this site and I don't think I'm above you or think that the attention should be on me, but isn't this thread still kinda about me and my questions/feelings?

    Hi Siunaa, I very much apologize for derailing your thread.. Thread jacked off topic

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #315 - February 16, 2014, 06:32 AM

    The concept of paradise and hell is impossible. Imagine you've been a perfect Muslim and very luckily end up paradise when you die. However, even though the rest of your family (who you love dearly I presume) have been perfect citizens, they didn't have belief in God so unfortunately they end up spending an eternity being tortured in hell (they were only on the planet for a very, very, very, short space of time). To be punished for eternity is ridiculous proving Allah is NOT forgivable or merciful, its disgustingly evil.  Would you still be in 'Paradise' knowing that they're being tortured for eternity? If that's not paradise to you then Allah has lied to you (or it doesn't exist). Again use probability on what's more realistic.

    Also why would the most powerful entity in the Universe be bothered if you believed in it or not? Surely it would be more concerned that you lived a good life and showed qualities like humanity, morality, loyalty, ethics etc and did your best to treat people and animals how they deserve. There are NO casualties in not praying apart from Allah's feelings and I'm pretty sure if it did exist, it is big enough to look after itself (it wouldn't  have feelings).

    Allah judges non belief as a worse sin than murder but how evil and twisted is that when considering the following; Allah has showed absolutely NO evidence to its existence and has even went to the trouble of providing evidence after evidence after evidence to its non existence (basically punishing people for using their curiosity and intelligence which apparently it gave us). Allah has also shown the invalidity of the Quran. Everyone knows that there are a multitude of contradictions and scientific inaccuracies in the Quran which prove that it is NOT the exact word of Allah.

    Some will say that some of the inaccuracies are because the Quran is being metaphorical and not literal or that it has been misinterpreted (usual ridiculous excuse). However the main description of how mankind was created (in its present form) through creationism is in complete contrast to evolution. Here's the bombshell though, evolution is NOT a 'theory' anymore, it's a 'FACT' (not just proved through fossil remains but through genetics etc) and Allah didn't just decide to miraculously create man, it took evolution and natural selection around 500 million years to achieve it.

    Why would Allah create the Universe around 13.8 billion years ago then do nothing for 9.2 billion years? Even then it created the Earth around 4.5 billion years ago but waited almost 4 billion years to create the simplest of life in the sea (why wait so long to create it, maybe because it happened through the long process of evolution and natural selection, NOT God?). Then Allah waited around 500 million more years to gradually evolve an ape with intelligence that would very gradually become the present day homosapien (in complete contrast to the Quran).

    Added to the fact that Allah chose the gender, age of death and whether that person would be good (go to paradise) or be bad ( go to hell for eternity) before that person was even born is just ridiculously and stupidly laughable (please take a moment and think about this rather than believing what you've been told).

    Here's an example of how ridiculous this is, the Quran states that homosexuals should be given the death penalty (they will also spend eternity in hell), however it's been been scientifically proven that homosexuality is not a choice but it occurs in the womb and they're born to be naturally attracted to the same gender. So how evil is Allah to purposely make many people homosexual knowing that they will be put to death and spend an eternity in hell.

    Please use your common sense and think rationally. The best feeling ever is when you find out that you're not a slave to Allah. You can actually have a positive influence on the World because you want to help people/animals because its the right thing to do because of your morals, not because of a fictional  monster. Love is so much more powerful than what the Quran ever did.


    It's shocking isn't it. We have little control over the two main factors that will influence us the most; our genes and our environment. Both of which God chooses for us and then punishes us for being a product of these two factors. I could have a genetic predestination to being gay and then I am punished for following the very desires that God created me with.

    It seems that we're all one big social experiment. God decides to create individuals in particular areas which will determine their religion/sect. He then provides no evidence for his existence (and of each religion) and then expects the individuals to follow the right religion that he has chosen. The ones who do are rewarded and the ones who don't are punished.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #316 - February 16, 2014, 09:22 AM

    Descent I think you've hit the nail on the head there, that's exactly how I feel about it. I wrote this a little bit earlier:

    "Why does Allah demand you believe in it (disbelief in Allah is a worse sin than murder) when it has given no evidence to its existence? In fact it purposely gives evidence after evidence after evidence to its non existence but still expects you to believe in it. You will say it's because it's testing us but how cruel, unfair and just ridiculous is that.

    Allah purposely gives us brains that are inquisitive and brains that naturally absorb evidence to help us make decisions. Yet it wants us to do the opposite of what our brains are designed to do and believe nonsensical and outdated superstitious old wives tales rather than scientific facts.

    It seems that Allah punishes those  with scientific minds, an example of this is if all atheists left the USA, it would loose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences (less than 1% of the prison population incidentally).

    So Allah sends all these educated scientists to hell even though they've contributed far more to society than most Quranic theologians. Allah decides to send people who act like zombies to paradise because they believe all religious text without questioning any of it."

    Also like you said we have no choice over our genes or environment and yet Allah punishes us for things we have absolutely no power over.

    I love hearing Muslims try and explain pre destination and free will (which are both contradictory but fundamental concepts in Islam). I haven't heard a plausible and educated response yet.

    Allah is meant to be omnipotent and omniscient and yet it couldn't have chosen a worse way of spreading its word. Telling his beliefs to an imperfect human in an imperfect language in an imperfect part of the world. Allah can tell the future and yet it still did it this ridiculous way.

    It's clear that the mythical nonsensical Allah created Humans because it wanted to be worshipped by everyone so to create a book that's obviously written by man is laughable.

    It's even written in a Haddith that on judgment day there will be 73 Islamic sects but only 1 will go to paradise. That's also the case for Christians and Jews. If that's the case around 99% of the population of the Earth today is going to spend enternity in Hell, billions of good people. But Allah is merciful haha, it's more evil than Hitler.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #317 - February 16, 2014, 10:14 AM

    Siunaa I forgot to mention that you should have absolutely no fear over what happens when you die, the worst thing that can happen is that you're at peace. You don't know when you're in a deep sleep and not dreaming do you? And that's not horrible at all, you're not in any pain or anything Smiley.

    However if you have children, your genes will live on till the end of mankind (not a good reason to have children of course but a nice bonus to having them ha).

    If you don't have children, you will live on through the fond memories of others. The best thing about not believing in a supernatural god is that you can do things to help people and animals because you generally care about them and want them to be happy, not because you want to please god or you're scared of it. For me it's the best feeling in the world.

    It's extremely empowering to know that you only get one chance of life so you better make the most of it and make it a good one. You can achieve whatever your heart wishes. Why don't you try and leave a legacy behind so when your on your death bed you can look back with a smile about the great things you achieved knowing that your life really did make a difference to the world for the better.

    For me that means trying to prevent animal species like tigers, rhinos, leopards etc from becoming extinct, as well as helping people who are less fortunate than myself. For you it might be something completely different but just as fulfilling. Embrace life Siunaa and be happy.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #318 - February 16, 2014, 11:28 AM

    Hi Craig,


    "Why does Allah demand you believe in it (disbelief in Allah is a worse sin than murder) when it has given no evidence to its existence? In fact it purposely gives evidence after evidence after evidence to its non existence but still expects you to believe in it. You will say it's because it's testing us but how cruel, unfair and just ridiculous is that.

    I try my best to replying to your inquiry concerning..

    Allah felt lonely and He desired to be known. That is why the Universe, Sun, Moon, Planets etc was created

    Hadith Qudsi in which Allah says “I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known; then they knew Me.".

    Do a little research yourself.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #319 - February 16, 2014, 11:41 AM

    .............................

    Allah felt lonely and He desired to be known. That is why the Universe, Sun, Moon, Planets etc was created

    Hadith Qudsi in which Allah says
    Quote
    I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known; then they knew Me.".

    Do a little research yourself.


    Allah felt what?? lonely ??     You..you      Cheesy   S.A.M you are worse than yeezevee insulting  the god of Quran & Islam...   

    well next time let us suggest to allah that instead of masturbating and creating all this universe & people  to  trouble them,  just create a   girl friend or harem  and play with them ..

    our  allah/god is heeeeee biiiiiig Long John Silver .

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Help Me!
     Reply #320 - February 16, 2014, 11:48 AM

    Allah felt lonely? So now you're giving Allah human emotions? I thought it was an entity that didn't have emotions? I've read comments by you before where you have stated that Allah doesn't have feelings or emotions so I'm very confused as to why you're contradicting yourself :/.

    Also I thought Allah had all the angels up in heaven who are constantly worshipping him so how was it lonely?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #321 - February 16, 2014, 12:08 PM

    Also S.A.M you stated that Allah wished to be known so that's why we have to constantly pray to him. However, if it wanted to be known, why did it go about it the worst, most inaccurate and slowest way possible? I can't think of a worse way of trying to get the population of earth to believe in me and I'm just a human, not an omnipotent omniscient all powerful god.

    It decided to explain everything to ONE imperfect human in ONE small part of a huge planet with ONE race in a very imperfect language that can be interpreted anyway the reader wishes meaning that Allah's wish of spreading his exact word could never happen so why did Allah do it this way? Is it really stupid or am I missing something?

    Hypothetically imagine if Allah gave the Quran to the leader of every nation (in their language) and explained to them how to build a printing press, it's word would've spread so quickly and it's word would be clear, removing all the numerous misinterpretations. Do you not think that is a better way of spreading the word and getting people to worship it (which it obviously craves so much). It reminds me more of a small spoilt child who constantly demands attention rather than an incredible all knowing God with mystical powers.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #322 - February 16, 2014, 12:18 PM

    Quote
    Allah felt lonely? So now you're giving Allah human emotions? I thought it was an entity that didn't have emotions?

    More than emotions like us..human being
    Quote
    I've read comments by you before where you have stated that Allah doesn't have feelings or emotions so I'm very confused as to why you're contradicting yourself :/.

    Did I say that.."Allah doesn't have feelings or emotions"

    Quote
    Also I thought Allah had all the angels up in heaven who are constantly worshipping him so how was it lonely?

    Angles just metaphorical only...

    Allah Only created Jinns and Mankind to worship Him Alone..

    In Quran says, And I created not the Jinn and mankind except to serve Me....

    Allah did not create Angels..

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #323 - February 16, 2014, 12:37 PM

    You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to adopt a rational attitude.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #324 - February 16, 2014, 12:50 PM

    Yea Sam I remember reading a discussion you had with someone a couple of weeks ago where they basically asked you; "how can Allah allow so much human suffering"? And your reply was along the lines of; we are insignificant to Allah and implied he didn't have emotions like humans (if I've got time I'll try and find the conversation). I find this contradictory to what you've stated here because; 1) You've said it was 'lonely' and therefore has human emotions and; 2) How can we be insignificant if it craves and demands our worship of it?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #325 - February 16, 2014, 01:19 PM

    Allah just like our parents. If children are naughty behavior, disobedient, disrespectful etc will be punished.

    The same thing just like government regulations if people do wrong, criminal etc will be punished

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Help Me!
     Reply #326 - February 16, 2014, 01:32 PM

    Quote from: S.A.M
    Allah just like our parents. If children are naughty behavior, disobedient, disrespectful etc will be punished.

    The same thing just like government regulations if people do wrong, criminal etc will be punished

    Oh then Allah is like BAD parenting and BAD government. Punishment is evil.

    Punishment doesn't work, in the sense that it fails to solve the problem it's intended to solve. Punishment is supposed to be about helping a person change his behavior, which means helping him learn what behavior is good and what behavior is bad. But punishment fails at helping people learn. Instead, punishment is effective at getting people to avoid certain behaviors in an effort to prevent feeling the pain of the punishment.

    This is why some people have adopted better parenting philosophy, where they EXPLAIN what's good and bad to their kids, in an effort to help them learn right from wrong.

    This is why some governments have adopted better prison philosophy, where they use prison only as a way to protect society from criminals, rather than as a way to give pain to criminals.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #327 - February 16, 2014, 01:40 PM

    An all powerful, all knowing being is less capable of many of the parents of friends I knew growing up. Also let me know when not believing in a concept is punishable by eternal torture in modern nations. It would be like the red scare in the 50s where being a communist was akin to a crime.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #328 - February 16, 2014, 01:42 PM

    Seriously how can you say "just like your parents and just like the government"? That is so far from reality and the truth I don't know where to start but I'll simply say that no government or parent has ever punished someone so disgustingly evil for eternity than Allah does for simply not believing in it.

     Allah is infinitely more evil than the most evil person or governent that has ever existed. Do you think it's fair to torture someone in hellfire for eternity even though they might've been a lovely human being with morals, integrity, ethics etc for simply not believing in something that is impossible to believe in if you have common sense and look at the evidence?

    Why doesn't Allah just punish unbelievers by not allowing them into paradise and just allows them to not exist? Why is it so blood thirsty and evil? It purposely creates vastly more people destined for hell than destined for heaven which means it loves seeing the suffering of others.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #329 - February 16, 2014, 02:06 PM

    Why are you all so afraid of Allah...Fear of Death....Fear of Hell,..Fear of Punishment and so forth.

    Because Quran says, so or what?

    I don't give a damn shit for that grin12

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
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