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Theme Changer

 Topic: Help Me!

 (Read 77171 times)
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  • Help Me!
     Reply #600 - March 24, 2014, 07:53 PM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa
    I will study this thing given by lua little bit more. I'm confident that the scholars of Islam don't come up with anything good explanation but for the fairness, I want to give them the chance and check their explanations. Will I now stop examine these "miracles"? Probably not but the more I find these gems the happier I am and the free'er I get.

    Might I suggest learning the logic of miracles?

    Did you know that all miracles use the same logic?

    Did you know that if you learn that logic, and the explanation for why it’s false, that you can apply this explanation to all miraculous claims at once? Refuting them all at once?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #601 - March 24, 2014, 09:11 PM
    Are you talking about Hume's work on miracles? I haven't read it in a while but wanted to ask for your source so I can read it for myself.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #602 - March 24, 2014, 09:23 PM
    Quote from: lua on March 24, 2014, 05:52 PM
    So have I met your challenge with 67:5,  Siunaa?  Wink


    But I would still like to know if the Quran's usage of "lowest heaven" means universe or how do you understand it?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #603 - March 24, 2014, 09:26 PM
    Honestly, Siunaa, I think  it means just what it looks like it means. Ancient civilizations the world over had cosmology theories that typically involved a universe with different "layers." It is just taking from concepts that had existed for a long time before the truth came out.
  • Re: Help Me!
     Reply #604 - March 24, 2014, 09:31 PM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 24, 2014, 07:05 PM
    Well it's stupid passage for sure and it's up there for sure. So I would say yes.

    Well thank fuck for that. Cheesy
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #605 - March 24, 2014, 09:33 PM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 24, 2014, 09:23 PM
    But I would still like to know if the Quran's usage of "lowest heaven" means universe or how do you understand it?

    "Lowest heaven" is a euphenism for a whorehouse.  parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #606 - March 24, 2014, 09:37 PM
    How many miracles are left to debunk? Anyone keeping score?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #607 - March 24, 2014, 09:42 PM
    3.86x1098
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #608 - March 24, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 24, 2014, 09:37 PM
    How many miracles are left to debunk? Anyone keeping score?

    It's not like the number is static. Muslims keep coming up with new ones.

    If a person's goal is to refute all of them one by one, that's impossible because there is no limit to the number of miracles that muslims will come up with. So this is a futile goal.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #609 - March 24, 2014, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: bogart on March 24, 2014, 09:11 PM
    Are you talking about Hume's work on miracles? I haven't read it in a while but wanted to ask for your source so I can read it for myself.

    no i meant my own.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #610 - March 24, 2014, 11:22 PM
    Your humour chip needs repair.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #611 - March 25, 2014, 12:23 AM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on March 24, 2014, 10:35 PM
    no i meant my own.


    Have you posted your work so I could read it?
  • Help Me!
     Reply #612 - March 25, 2014, 10:19 AM
    Siunaa

    Doesn't reading those tafsirs simply tell you that it's gobbledygook that bears no relationship to reality? There's no need for any linguistic contortionism whereby new meanings get invented for words to conceal the awkward reality that the Quran is a product of its times  - the plain meaning tells us that we're dealing with cosmological conceptions from antiquity that have been dead for centuries because they were found to be incontrovertibly wrong, failed to accurately describe the physical phenomena of the universe that we perceive and were a hindrance to developing new knowledge and making new discoveries.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #613 - March 25, 2014, 11:50 AM
    Quote from: bogart on March 25, 2014, 12:23 AM
    Have you posted your work so I could read it?

    It's not finished. Do you want me to post it unfinished? I don't mind doing it. It could help me fix the problems with it.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #614 - March 25, 2014, 11:51 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 24, 2014, 11:22 PM
    Your humour chip needs repair.

    i know that your "keeping score" comment was a joke.

    but all jokes have truth in them.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #615 - March 25, 2014, 12:16 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 24, 2014, 09:42 PM
    3.86x1098

    Muslims just came up with some new "miracles". Let's update the count.

    3.87x1098
  • Help Me!
     Reply #616 - March 26, 2014, 06:31 PM
    Reading Tafsir Ibn Kathir, I found quote from Abbas:
    Quote
    If the seven heavens and the seven earths were flattened and laid side by side, they would add up to the size of a ring in a desert, compared to the Kursi.'


    To me it looks like Abbas may have held belief of spherical earth. Why else would he say "earths were flattened"?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #617 - March 26, 2014, 06:38 PM
    Sounds to me like he thought they were flat. At least that's what I get from "flattened". Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #618 - March 26, 2014, 06:39 PM
    What's your point? The ancient Greeks knew the world was a sphere.

    And what the fuck are these seven heavens and seven earths anyway?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #619 - March 26, 2014, 06:41 PM
    I think you missed the context: "If the seven heavens and seven earths were flattened."
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #620 - March 26, 2014, 06:50 PM
    If the mountains and the trees and the people and whatnot were flattened out. What's a ring in a desert?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Help Me!
     Reply #621 - March 26, 2014, 06:53 PM
    That's the size comparison between the flattened stuff and Allah's porcelain throne. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #622 - March 26, 2014, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on March 25, 2014, 11:50 AM
    It's not finished. Do you want me to post it unfinished? I don't mind doing it. It could help me fix the problems with it.


    That is up to you. I am not sure how much I could help by pointing out any problems considering I only have one philosophy course under my belt.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #623 - March 26, 2014, 07:33 PM
    Quote from: bogart
    That is up to you. I am not sure how much I could help by pointing out any problems considering I only have one philosophy course under my belt.

    I've taken zero philosophy courses. It doesn't matter how many courses you've taken. Anybody can find flaws in ideas.

    Here's an unfinished version of my essay on _Miracle claims about the Quran_: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26109.new#new


    If you want to learn philosophy, I suggest that you don't do it by taking courses. Instead, consider reading this: http://fallibleideas.com (by Elliot Temple), and posting your understanding of it at the email list so that you can expose your understanding to external criticism. Or read _The Beginning of Infinity_ (by David Deustch), and post your understanding to the 'fallible ideas' email list.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #624 - March 26, 2014, 08:21 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on March 26, 2014, 07:33 PM
    If you want to learn philosophy, I suggest that you don't do it by taking courses. Instead, consider reading this: http://fallibleideas.com (by Elliot Temple), and posting your understanding of it at the email list so that you can expose your understanding to external criticism. Or read _The Beginning of Infinity_ (by David Deustch), and post your understanding to the 'fallible ideas' email list.


    The world loves those little pieces of paper that prove one has at least taken a formal course within a field. We love our arguments from authority.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #625 - March 26, 2014, 11:19 PM
    Quote from: Bogart
    The world loves those little pieces of paper that prove one has at least taken a formal course within a field.

    Do you want to know how to live a rational life in an irrational world?

    Quote
    We love our arguments from authority.

    Well, that's a mistake. It's an irrational way to choose between rival theories.

    The rational way is to reject authority, and to judge ideas by their merit (i.e. whether or not they survive criticism).
  • Help Me!
     Reply #626 - March 27, 2014, 04:12 PM
    Quote from: RamiRustom on March 26, 2014, 11:19 PM
    Do you want to know how to live a rational life in an irrational world?

    Sure.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Help Me!
     Reply #627 - March 27, 2014, 09:29 PM
    Is it scientifically correct that sex during menstruating has negative effects?
    I ask many stupid questions frequently.
    I am curious, that's why I ask many questions.
    I am overly curious, that's why I ask stupid questions.
    I lack patience, that's why I ask frequently.
    So forgive me and answer me Smiley
  • Help Me!
     Reply #628 - March 27, 2014, 09:31 PM
    Quote from: Siunaa Maailmaa on March 27, 2014, 09:29 PM
    Is it scientifically correct that sex during menstruating has negative effects?

    If you regard orgasms as a negative effect, yes. Otherwise, no.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Help Me!
     Reply #629 - March 27, 2014, 09:33 PM
    Negative effects? Depends on how much you spent on your sheets, I guess. parrot
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