Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.

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- bogart
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #90 - February 25, 2014, 01:06 AM

Quote from: EzraJT on February 24, 2014, 06:19 PM
If this is referring to the British Conservative Party, then they're just as much ass lickers of the United States, as all people in power in the UK are. The UK is just a wing of the United States, just like Canada and Australia and so forth. The British Empire is long gone.

It's a Canadian party. They got us out of Afghanistan when America decided to go off on other "adventures". They kept us out of Iraq.

You did nothing to address my point. All you did was further reinforce my point by generalizing nations you probably never spent any length of time in. Please tell me how my nation, Canada, are the "ass lickers" of the USA. Im all ears
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #91 - February 25, 2014, 09:20 AM

Quote from: lua on February 24, 2014, 09:20 PM
I find myself playing the Quranist again like old times, and that's kind of a bummer.

Yeah, I noticed that But that is not my point. I think that the real ramifications of not only the Islamic code of conduct and morality, but all laws that are incorporated in the "shariah body of law", are seen in Muslim societies. First of all, you can never, never ever, be able to separate culture and religion, and if reading Islamic law, you will realize that the qawaaid give great flexibility in order to incorporate cultural traditions and practices as long as they do not go against a specific law directly. Secondly, as I pointed out with my honor culture argument, practices and cultural influences that are seemingly "un-Islamic" are actually prevalent because of Islamic teachings. Most Muslims I have debated and discussed with claim that "there is no real shariah state", and when they're confronted with "uncomfortable" facts about "Islamic states" from the past, they brush it off as it was an anomaly or something else. Muslims have to come to terms with the fact that these practices that are "condemned" are there because of Islam, not in spite of Islam. In that way I agreed with Ouis when I read her study on honor culture in Palestine. Honor culture is not practiced in spite of Islam, but because of Islam, and this is just one example out of many.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- yeezevee
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #92 - February 25, 2014, 01:20 PM

Quote from: EzraJT on February 24, 2014, 09:02 PM
I don't mind being banned, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I'm certainly not going to bite my tongue for bigoted assholes like you.

ET ... EzraJT., I am so sorry to push you a bit with my words. I am one of those guys who push people in to corner just to understand how a person responds for a given impulse. But it is just a discussion., you know you have AMP problem ., many people are victims of that AMP.

please come back ., you write well and i am certain you will write better and do better in your life if you control AMP with that cyclic AMP running wild in the brain.. For some reason in some brains cyclic AMP input is not controlled well.. So cool down., divert your insults to CONCEPTS NOT towards people of this forum or for that matter people around you. CEMB forum needs input from guys like you and Arolti
Quote from: Arolti on February 24, 2014, 09:10 PM
Yeah that's a fair comparison between calling out blanket bigotry and ignorance and women being oppressed and silenced.

Arolti doesn't seem know the meaning and ORIGINS OF PAK.,

the word "Pak" means "Pure" in Urdu and Farsi. I wish it was named as PAKSTAN instead of "Pakisthan" that letter "i" is not needed. anyways, take it easy and let your friends from Pakistan know about this forum.

So that word "AMP" stands for "Anger Management Problems" Not "adenosine monophosphate"

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #93 - February 26, 2014, 02:48 AM

Quote from: lua on February 24, 2014, 09:20 PM

Tl;dr: Even though I have a hard time seeing how some of KSA's dealings can be reconciled with Islam, I definitely think I understand your point now. It was easier to disagree back when I believed in all of this nonsense, but now that I can take a step back and see it not as a divine system but as a giant, rabid mess, I have to totally agree with what I think is the main point of your argument, and I accept that even trying to identify a correct or incorrect sharia is worthless and a distraction.

Yes, when you step back and you see the "giant, rabid mess", then you have achieved clarity. It was just an illusion of a system, built on an illusion of a system, built on a game of telephone.

I like your wording.

If you go a little further, and you look at the Shia application of Shariah, it makes even more sense, that it is just a mess. The Ayatollah is divinely selected, predetermined or something. He does not make mistakes.

So all the injustices meted out are actually in accordance with Divine Laws, in either country, since the rulers are supposedly in cahoots with the Divine.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #94 - February 26, 2014, 03:33 PM

Cornflower- In your most recent reply, you and I are totally in agreement. That was one of the problems that I always tried to justify as a Muslim, and failed time and time again. Regarding the Quranist part, I know, man, I can't help it. Before, during, and after Islam, I had a hard time seeing how all of the manifestations, all of the branches, all of the opinions can spring from that one seed and still claim right over it, even when ostensibly so deviated from the original point. But, like you are saying, that is the great trouble with it.

Three- That was definitely key for me. As a believer I had this idea of the basic, bare-bones Islam that I could accept and that I felt was prescribed, and I kept thinking we (Muslims) would be in a better state if we got back to that. But I wasn't ready to accept that this mess happened for a reason, and would happen again and again; there was never something worth salvaging, even if the divine laws were more palatable. Too many loopholes, too many flaws, and your example is a great one of that.
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #95 - February 26, 2014, 04:07 PM

One of the funny things to me is that there are all these branches, there are all these meanings, there are all these many interpretations and disagreements on what things mean, and yet they still tell you the quran is clear with a straight face.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #96 - February 26, 2014, 04:14 PM

Hi Quod, did you see the message I sent you?

Btw guys, please tell me what you think of my new YT intro... it's really hard to produce content that you will like if I don't know what you like.

thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_pjupFE1TE&feature=youtu.be

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
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Reply #97 - February 27, 2014, 02:07 AM

Quote from: lua on February 26, 2014, 03:33 PM

Three- That was definitely key for me. As a believer I had this idea of the basic, bare-bones Islam that I could accept and that I felt was prescribed, and I kept thinking we (Muslims) would be in a better state if we got back to that. But I wasn't ready to accept that this mess happened for a reason, and would happen again and again; there was never something worth salvaging, even if the divine laws were more palatable. Too many loopholes, too many flaws, and your example is a great one of that.

I fell for that purist back to basics bit, too. I kept trying to look past the doings of the Muslims to find the "real" Islam. It was much too long before I realized that the people form a religion's identity, that they cannot be divorced from one another, that religion is dependent on the people and their behaviours. Their very self determination, their self labeling as Muslims manifests in religious practice and identity, and literature cannot hide it. You cannot tell a Muslim that they are not practicing Islam. They are Islam. There is no Islam without Muslims.
For years they told me, don't look at us, look at Quran, look at Hadith, but ignore or retranslate or explain away the parts you find disturbing, as Islam cannot be disturbing, and that would mean I believe something disturbing, myself.
"Don't look" is what they meant. For everything.
I wish I had looked sooner, instead of trying to peer around everything that was self evident.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Why is Islam the fastest growing religion.
Reply #98 - February 28, 2014, 02:03 AM

Three- Aha, you are right; well put. It reminds me of a thing I hear all the time: "Islam is perfect, but humans are not." Even as an apologist I don't recall ever trying that line...It never made sense to me how something could claim to be perfect if it is incompatible with reality and cannot be properly practiced in its "pure and perfect" form.

Anyway, you said it beautifully. And I, too, wish I had looked sooner. But I am so glad we eventually did!
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