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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1410 - October 13, 2014, 12:17 PM

    Quote
    Turkey has agreed to allow moderate Syrian rebels to be trained on its soil, the US says, in its bid to combat Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

    US National Security Adviser Susan Rice, who announced the development, said she welcomed the new agreement.

    It has not yet been confirmed by Turkey, which has so far refused to send troops into Syria or Iraq.

    Turkish MPs recently passed a motion allowing foreign forces to use its bases for activities in Syria and Iraq.

    The US-led coalition is carrying out air strikes against Islamic State militants, who have seized large parts of Iraq and Syria. Many have targeted IS around the key Syria-Turkey border town of Kobane.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29591916
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1411 - October 13, 2014, 12:34 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkrUZGVACTI

    That Dr. Zuhdi Jasser with his  Syrian background Talsk about ISIS and ISLAM..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1412 - October 13, 2014, 04:44 PM

    It should be noted that Arabs from the Free Syrian Army are fighting alongside the Syrian Kurds.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kFBq_jTFcE
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1413 - October 13, 2014, 05:16 PM

    Jup.

    FSA fighting alongside
    Kobane Kurds


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsPkbWEsXpc

    Quote
    The field commander of an FSA brigade aiding the defense of Kobane spoke to NOW about his unit's ties with Kurdish fighters and their battle against ISIS

    The following is an interview NOW conducted with Abu Saif, the field commander of Raqqa's Revolutionaries Brigades, which is now stationed in Kobane, fighting alongside the People’s Protection Units (YPG) militias of the Democratic Union Party (PYD) of Syrian Kurdistan. Although not much-discussed in the international press coverage of Kobane, the FSA’s participation in this anti-ISIS campaign illuminates just how isolated indigenous Syrian forces are in combating a transnational terrorist army.
     
    (Note: ISIS is referred to throughout this interview by its widely used epithet, Daesh.)
     
    NOW: How many men did you have in Kobane fighting alongside YPG militias?
     
    Abu Saif: We had 1,250, but now the force is down to 300 only.
     
    NOW: And why did they leave?
     
    Abu Saif: When we withdrew from Raqqa, after Daesh overtook the city, and went to Kobane, we were a force of about 1,250 fighters. Unfortunately, we had to turn away a lot of these guys because we could not feed them or provide them with ammunition. So we sent some of them across the border to Turkey to take jobs there.
     
    NOW: Why haven't we seen more about the role you're playing in Kobane?

    Abu Saif: The PR capacity of the Revolutionary Brigades is not that great. However, more importantly, we think of this battle -- we're not just fighting there to support the Kurds. This is also Syrian land, regardless of who populates that city, and it's being attacked by Daesh. So it is our duty to defend it. We also had a more conservative approach to Daesh. We did not pay a lot of attention to the media aspect because, as you know, a lot of people have turned that into a business. They'd carry out an operation, film it, and upload it to YouTube to receive assistance. We don't engage in that as often as other groups. We only advertise some of our operations, but it's not done in a very organized fashion.
     
    [After this interview was conducted, Abu Saif sent me the above video, purportedly showing Raqqa’s Revolutionaries Brigades' operations in Kobane.]
     
    NOW: In the past, the FSA has fought the YPG, often alongside Daesh. Is this cooperation with the Kurds just a tactical maneuver, or can you envision a long-term strategic partnership?
     
    Abu Saif: Initially, we started out actually fighting against the YPG or the PYD, and then when Daesh moved on Raqqa, we stopped fighting against the YPG and shifted into fighting Daesh. Then Daesh pushed us out of Raqqa and we had to withdraw from the city and into the northern suburbs of Raqqa, which are close to Kobane. There was a sort of cease-fire or truce between the FSA and the YPG. Ahrar al-Sham played a role in that cease-fire. And so we were on board with the cease-fire. It was for six months. We reached out to the Kurds and we became friends. Then we withdrew even further into Kobane itself. The YPG were fighting Daesh, so we were forced into an alliance with the YPG. We had nowhere else to go. Daesh were surrounding us on all sides, except of course behind us was the YPG. As the Arabic proverb goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
     
    NOW: Can you see the YPG joining the FSA, as both Turkey and the United States seem to want?
     
    Abu Saif: I don't think the PYD will give up its identity and bundle itself into the FSA. However, in Kobane, our brigade received an offer from the Kurds to have the PYD to join with them and fight under the FSA banner. This might make it more amenable for the Turks to come to Kobane's rescue. This is still in the negotiations phase, no final decisions have been made.

    NOW: You’re in Kobane now. Can you describe conditions in the city? What part is invaded by Daesh, what part is being held by the YPG/FSA?
     
    Abu Saif: The situation right now is quite miserable. Unfortunately, we had to withdraw at least half of our men. In fact, the situation was quite bad even months ago when we were still fighting Daesh in the suburbs of Rae. No one gave us anti-tank weapons. We had RPGs, but Daesh relied on heavily armored vehicles, after the capture of Mosul.
     
    When Daesh pushed against Kobane, the situation became even worse. We asked for assistance, but no one gave us anything. There were no anti-tank weapons. When Daesh breached the defenses and made their way into the city, the fighting became street-to-street. We decided we had to withdraw at least half of our forces to save their lives.
     
    The day before yesterday, Daesh was in control of half of Kobane. However, before we withdrew, we — meaning my brigade and the YPG — planted car bombs, booby-traps and also bombs in some of the houses inside the city itself. So when Daesh took over that portion of the city, there were a number of explosions that came as a surprise to them. Because of that, we were able to push them back to the outskirts of the city. Now they're on the outskirts of Kobane.
     
    NOW: We know why Turkey isn't allowing warms to the PYD, but why aren't they giving you any?
     
    Abu Saif: At the end of the day, any weapons that came to us would benefit the PYD, and the Turks don't want that.  I am struggling for words right now. When we were in Raqqa, we used to receive assistance from Turkey. These Kurds are also Syrians, and at the end of the day, they are fighting for their land, their women, their children. It’s not as if we are committing a crime here. The international community must come to our aid.
     
    Michael Weiss is a columnist at Foreign Policy and a fellow at the Institute of Modern Russia. He tweets at @michaeldweiss


    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1414 - October 13, 2014, 06:38 PM

    I'm really bored of this hearing this strange argument of "the invasion of Iraq by UK and US has created ISIS".

    How is it the fault of those who removed a tyrant like Saddam in creating terrorists? I've never heard such a bizarre non-sequitor. That's as incoherent as blaming the police for there being new criminals as a result of removing old criminals.

    Alot of opinions on politics especially from muslims sounds like some facile shit they've heard Asghar Bukhari's say or from the pulpit from a mullah who knows nothing about politics and should stick to telling people how to perform wudu and do sajda.

    Imperialist Islamic Caliphates have long proceeded the USA. There was no such thing as the USA in the 7th Century. Al-Qaeda was around before the removal of Saddam. Sayyed Kutb, Hassan Al Banna, Osama Bin Laden all these Islamofascists outlined their plans for a return of a theological Empire long before the recent grievances with "American Foreign Policy".
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1415 - October 13, 2014, 06:56 PM

    Same here. I see Danish Muslims attack me and others with native names for Denmark supporting IS (huh?) despite they are born and live here too.

    Add Maududi and Hizb ut-Tahrir to your list. That organisation is over 60 years old and has been selling "teh Caliphate" to world + dog.

    I heard somewhere that the day that the US invasion forces disbanded the Baath Party they all suddenly became religious. From the other spectrum Iran started pouring in their influence.

    The US was thus caught in between. They just removed the one safety valve that kept the whole thing under (extremely bloody) control.

    Also, The Serpent of Eden was placed by a Zionist agent.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1416 - October 13, 2014, 07:39 PM

    I'm really bored of this hearing this strange argument of "the invasion of Iraq by UK and US has created ISIS".


    Yes, I agree.

    This is lazy, oversimplistic thinking and absolves the Isis zombies of their awful deeds. While the legitimacy or otherwise of the Iraq fiasco is a serious matter, the canard 'ISIS is all the West's fault'  misses out the other events that also may have contributed to the mess. Was it the Arab Spring, was is Assad's refusal to stand down, was it the unrest in Egypt/Tunisia/Bahrain etc....we could go on, but at some point, when Jihadi John picks up his blade and saws through the neck of an aid worker on TV, he has to take full responsibility for his actions and cannot say "Look what Bush/Blair made me do."

    It seems the Arab Spring has turned into an Islamic Winter.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1417 - October 13, 2014, 09:45 PM

    It's equally naive to ignore the effect of western foreign policy and action in the region.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1418 - October 13, 2014, 09:48 PM

    It's equally naive to ignore the effect of western foreign policy and action in the region.


    +1
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1419 - October 13, 2014, 10:17 PM

    I'm really bored of this hearing this strange argument of "the invasion of Iraq by UK and US has created ISIS".

    How is it the fault of those who removed a tyrant like Saddam in creating terrorists? I've never heard such a bizarre non-sequitor. That's as incoherent as blaming the police for there being new criminals as a result of removing old criminals.

    This sounds like an opinions on politics that has come out of Asghar Bukhari's mouth or the pulpit from a mullah who knows nothing about politics and should stick to telling people how to perform wudu and sajda.

    Imperialist Islamic Caliphates have long proceeded the USA. There was no such thing as the USA in the 7th Century. Al-Qaeda was around before the removal of Saddam. Sayyed Kutb, Hassan Al Banna, Osama Bin Laden all these Islamofascists outlined their plans for a return of a theological Empire long before the recent grievances with "American Foreign Policy".


    American foreign policy was stupid enough to help them, and also British foreign policy especially in Libya.  Politicians in both the US and the UK are under the dangerous illusion that they can run the world.  In reality, they can't even run their own countries, never mind the world.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1420 - October 13, 2014, 10:50 PM

    Then we have stories like this:

    Quote
    To stave off Anbar's collapse, provincial leaders have asked Iraq's central government to intervene immediately and for U.S. ground forces to be deployed there, said al-Issawi.
    Iraqi army forces and Anbar tribesmen fighting alongside them have threatened to abandon their weapons if the U.S. military does not intervene to help them, he said, because they are faltering before the ISIS onslaught.


    Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

    Also many people on social media seem to think that the US and UK *ARE* running the world (and everything is going according to plan).

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1421 - October 13, 2014, 10:56 PM

    The US are running parts of the world, (including the UK to a certain extent), and they're making an awful mess of it. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1422 - October 13, 2014, 10:57 PM

    It's equally naive to ignore the effect of western foreign policy and action in the region.


    It's reasonable for the USA to try and act in it's own interests. The question I'd ask is what is it about the Middle East that they were able to it so effectively? Do we point the finger of blame at the people who did it, or the people that allowed it to happen? America has been powerful for what, 75 years. The Middle East has had something like 1300 years to sort itself out. What do you think say, Australia, would have done if it had been sitting on all that oil wealth?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1423 - October 13, 2014, 10:57 PM

    I'm really bored of this hearing this strange argument of "the invasion of Iraq by UK and US has created ISIS".

    How is it the fault of those who removed a tyrant like Saddam in creating terrorists? I've never heard such a bizarre non-sequitor. That's as incoherent as blaming the police for there being new criminals as a result of removing old criminals.

    This sounds like an opinions on politics that has come out of Asghar Bukhari's mouth or the pulpit from a mullah who knows nothing about politics and should stick to telling people how to perform wudu and sajda.

    Imperialist Islamic Caliphates have long proceeded the USA. There was no such thing as the USA in the 7th Century. Al-Qaeda was around before the removal of Saddam. Sayyed Kutb, Hassan Al Banna, Osama Bin Laden all these Islamofascists outlined their plans for a return of a theological Empire long before the recent grievances with "American Foreign Policy".


    Ur really dumb.

    fuck you
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1424 - October 13, 2014, 11:01 PM

    It's reasonable for the USA to try and act in it's own interests. The question I'd ask is what is it about the Middle East that they were able to it so effectively? Do we point the finger of blame at the people who did it, or the people that allowed it to happen? America has been powerful for what, 75 years. The Middle East has had something like 1300 years to sort itself out. What do you think say, Australia, would have done if it had been sitting on all that oil wealth?


    Fine, America is exonerated of blame.  Blame is a distraction anyway.  Has America taken care of its own national interests by its actions in the Middle East?  I would say no, and there's no moral argument for much of what America has done there either. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1425 - October 13, 2014, 11:05 PM

    America's national interests are the interests of its ruling class in practice and they seem to be doing okay no matter how much the US fucks up that region-- some of them even make out better through war profiteering. What incentive is there for our government to do anything differently?

    fuck you
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1426 - October 13, 2014, 11:07 PM

    [/quote
    I'm really bored of this hearing this strange argument of "the invasion of Iraq by UK and US has created ISIS".



    If it had not been done it would have been much easier to act now. Assuming the "Arab spring" and all that followed had occurred.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1427 - October 13, 2014, 11:09 PM

    My definition of America's national interest was the interests of its people.  And in a democracy, surely the incentive should be the ruling classes' fear of being booted out of power if they keep fucking up.  I suppose that doesn't work in practice though, if you don't like the Republicans the only alternative is the Democrats, who are only slightly less fucked up.

    Btw, who is that in your avatar Q?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1428 - October 13, 2014, 11:13 PM

    The Danish government is not amused:
    Quote
    The man who tried to assassinate Lars Hedegaard has reportedly been released by Turkish authorities, possibly as part of a prisoner swap with Isis. Now Hedegaard fear someone else might come "finish the job".
    [...]
    According to The Times, Turkey released 180 jihadists in exchange for the return of 49 Turkish diplomats. Politiken reports that it has seen The Times’ list of the jihadists involved in the exchange and that BH’s name is not included. The paper stresses however that it is unknown if the list is exhaustive.


    More in thelocal.dk

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1429 - October 13, 2014, 11:16 PM

    America's national interests are the interests of its ruling class in practice and they seem to be doing okay no matter how much the US fucks up that region-- some of them even make out better through war profiteering. What incentive is there for our government to do anything differently?


    Compared to most of the rest of the world Americans are pretty comfortable and pretty safe. Their government isn't doing that badly for them.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1430 - October 13, 2014, 11:22 PM

    My definition of America's national interest was the interests of its people.  And in a democracy, surely the incentive should be the ruling classes' fear of being booted out of power if they keep fucking up.  I suppose that doesn't work in practice though, if you don't like the Republicans the only alternative is the Democrats, who are only slightly less fucked up.


    No it doesn't work. This is an plutocratic electoral oligarchy, not a democratic republic, and when it was a semblance of a democratic republic only white males could vote, so still tons of Americans that didn't have their interests represented.

    Quote
    Btw, who is that in your avatar Q?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_%28abolitionist%29

    Compared to most of the rest of the world Americans are pretty comfortable and pretty safe. Their government isn't doing that badly for them.


    Compared to poor countries yes. Either you don't live here, aren't working class, or are just dumb and brainwashed to say our government doesn't do that badly for us. For all this country's wealth, yes it does-- we live in a fucking racist police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world, murder rates close to some of the worst crime-ridden countries in Central America, much lower average wages for ordinary workers than our counterparts in Europe, an ever shrinking social safety net, higher mortality rates and lower education levels than countries with half our per cap GDP. Yeah it's just fuckin great here. I feel so lucky I don't live in some struggling third world nation that our government helps keep poor. Fuck that noise.

    fuck you
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1431 - October 13, 2014, 11:40 PM

    Quote
    For all this country's wealth, yes it does-- we live in a fucking racist police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world, murder rates close to some of the worst crime-ridden countries in Central America, much lower average wages for ordinary workers than our counterparts in Europe, an ever shrinking social safety net, higher mortality rates and lower education levels than countries with half our per cap GDP.


    Yes, yes, yes.

    I don't disagree for a second, Rob, that I am extraordinarily fortunate to be here. I could have done far worse for myself in other countries.

    However, it's all a roll of the dice here. This is a great place to live if you're in a position of privilege. This place is made for you. Otherwise, you're going to struggle hard to keep moving forward. For some, particularly those who were born into poverty or who contend with outrageously expensive health issues or debt, or, god forbid, who have their opportunities narrowed down by racial discrimination on top of everything, it is oppressive and miserable just to get by.

    For having the advantages we have as a country, this is completely unacceptable, and all while the few on top get to keep tilting the yoke towards the ground to serve their own interests.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1432 - October 13, 2014, 11:41 PM

    It's equally naive to ignore the effect of western foreign policy and action in the region.


    Sure, I would agree, but the argument serpent is challenging is the simplistic one that  implies that Isis are a direct creation of the US/UK invasion of Iraq, like it was the intended result. Yes the Iraq war was a catastrophe and should never have happened, but I do not think that anyone could ever have conceived it would have come to this.

    We are seeing 'regime change' calls for Assad from various states in the region and around the globe, and they may be right, in principle to call for this, but, as in the mistakes in Iraq, would that not just leave another power vacuum for mayhem to plug the gap. Would the FSA or any transitional council just be overrun by Isis-like  affiliates. Do we do with Assad what maybe we should have done in Iraq with Saddam, and leave the dictator in power cos he is a buffer against a worse monster?

    What if, as many are calling for, Assad is finally toppled and then the whole region falls under the IS wing, would we then sit back and say Assad should have stayed in power and those who wanted rid of him 'caused' or 'created' new problems. Do we just give in and take the attitude that, "those ME/Arab lot just need dictators to keep them from anarchy?"

    I am not proposing what we should or shouldn't do, or have all the answers. These are extremely difficult judgments to make, with so many actors with duplicitious allegiances, loyalties and agendas but am just suggesting the possible scenarios that could occur depending on the actions that are taken by the rest of the global community.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1433 - October 13, 2014, 11:49 PM

    Yes, yes, yes.

    I don't disagree for a second, Rob, that I am extraordinarily fortunate to be here. I could have done far worse for myself in other countries.

    However, it's all a roll of the dice here. This is a great place to live if you're in a position of privilege. This place is made for you. Otherwise, you're going to struggle hard to keep moving forward. For some, particularly those who were born into poverty or who contend with outrageously expensive health issues or debt, or, god forbid, who have their opportunities narrowed down by racial discrimination on top of everything, it is oppressive and miserable just to get by.

    For having the advantages we have as a country, this is completely unacceptable, and all while the few on top get to keep tilting the yoke towards the ground to serve their own interests.


    Yeah, this^^^^

    fuck you
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1434 - October 13, 2014, 11:50 PM

    I think such a conspiracy theory (that allied nations manufactured ISIS) is a fringe view, like all conspiracy theories. It's not reflective of the vast majority of people who condemn the allied role in this.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1435 - October 13, 2014, 11:57 PM

    Politicians in both the US and the UK are under the dangerous illusion that they can run the world

    ...and aid agencies that they can save it.

    Both forever infantilising those they would rule or save.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1436 - October 14, 2014, 12:06 AM

    Sure, I would agree, but the argument serpent is challenging is the simplistic one that  implies that Isis are a direct creation of the US/UK invasion of Iraq, like it was the intended result. Yes the Iraq war was a catastrophe and should never have happened, but I do not think that anyone could ever have conceived it would have come to this.

    We are seeing 'regime change' calls for Assad from various states in the region and around the globe, and they may be right, in principle to call for this, but, as in the mistakes in Iraq, would that not just leave another power vacuum for mayhem to plug the gap. Would the FSA or any transitional council just be overrun by Isis-like  affiliates. Do we do with Assad what maybe we should have done in Iraq with Saddam, and leave the dictator in power cos he is a buffer against a worse monster?

    What if, as many are calling for, Assad is finally toppled and then the whole region falls under the IS wing, would we then sit back and say Assad should have stayed in power and those who wanted rid of him 'caused' or 'created' new problems. Do we just give in and take the attitude that, "those ME/Arab lot just need dictators to keep them from anarchy?"

    I am not proposing what we should or shouldn't do, or have all the answers. These are extremely difficult judgments to make, with so many actors with duplicitious allegiances, loyalties and agendas but am just suggesting the possible scenarios that could occur depending on the actions that are taken by the rest of the global community.


    Maybe the "global community" - which really means the US and its hangers on - should stop taking action and leave the Middle East to sort its own affairs.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1437 - October 14, 2014, 12:09 AM

    Yes, that's the other option.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1438 - October 14, 2014, 12:20 AM

    I think such a conspiracy theory (that allied nations manufactured ISIS) is a fringe view, like all conspiracy theories. It's not reflective of the vast majority of people who condemn the allied role in this.


    Yes, I don't think that anyone is denying that Iraq war played a role, but the leaders of today can only play the hand they have been dealt by their antecedents, and the situation they see. Do you think we should even have a supporting role or a total hands-off 'let them deal with it' attitude?

    There are groups that are pleading for arms and heavy weaponry to save their people, and argue that by doing nothing the West is turning a blind eye to their fate. Look at the rage that the Kurds are firing up in Turkey for their inaction against isis in Kobane. Turkey is a NATO member don't forget so correct me if I am wrong, if it gets attacked then we are, as signatories to the Treaty, would it not be an obligation to get involved?

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1439 - October 14, 2014, 12:45 AM

    interesting, even if you disagree

    A Marxist case for war on ISIS

    http://notgeorgesabra.wordpress.com/2014/09/17/the-politics-of-the-war-on-isis-a-marxist-approach/#more-1445

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

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