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Theme Changer

 Topic: UK Election 2015

 (Read 27163 times)
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  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #60 - May 08, 2015, 04:20 PM
    Quote from: lua on May 08, 2015, 04:14 PM
    ^ Wait, to the left of the Democratic party or the Republican party?


    The Democratic party. I do understand the distinction.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #61 - May 08, 2015, 04:22 PM
    Not saying that you didn't, but if that's the case, now I'm really confused! Time to phone the sister and get her to explain this whole thing like I'm five.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #62 - May 08, 2015, 04:25 PM
    Quote from: Rob on May 08, 2015, 04:08 PM
    Your list is selective, you could have included Aneurin Bevan, Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt in it as well. Like it or not, weirdness and likeability don't win elections. Pretty much everyone disliked Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair as I recall. All the people you list above led their countries, charisma is a pre-requisite. Cameron has very little and Miliband has negative charisma.


          Of course it's selective , I was making a point .
    Blair was only disliked after he'd been in office a few years and embroiled the country in a war. Thatcher was more complicated - many of us disliked her straight away but she had a lot of admirers .I remember the 79 election and a lot of people supported her partly because she was female and they felt she was a victim of sexism
      I'm concerned we're moving further towards American style politics , where it's all about 'personality' and image and how much money you spend on your campaign.
      Bevan was a great man and certainly had to deal with some serious opposition , but I don't think he  had film crews following him round watching him eat.
       -  As for the 'stabbing his brother in the back ' stuff , this really annoys me. Leading a political party (and possibly the country) is not like who gets to pick the TV channel ., or sit in the front of the family car . We already have a royal family and an establishment made up of people born to privilege , the Labour Party doesn't need to adopt the same principle
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #63 - May 08, 2015, 04:29 PM
    Quote from: Rob on May 08, 2015, 04:19 PM
    Cameron has already said he won't be leader of the party at the next election. The seat is being kept warm for Boris. British politics however, has a way of not letting people achieve what they might. The person most expected to win party leadership often doesn't manage it.


    If that's the case, Conservatives are likely to win the next couple of elections he's a popular guy, He was head boy at Eton so is used to leadership, he just pretends to be silly.  I'm sure i overheard Ed Balls wife, Yvette Cooper  is putting herself forward for the next labour leader, she's scottish as far as im aware lol
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #64 - May 08, 2015, 04:30 PM
    Lua. The Conservative Manifesto is available on the link below. These are the promises they will be expected to stick to (they probably won't) during the next government. Give it a quick skim, I think you'll agree that if they tried much of it in the USA they'd be accused of being communist or something.

    https://www.conservatives.com/manifesto

  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #65 - May 08, 2015, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: Rob on May 08, 2015, 04:13 PM
    It isn't quite that bad. The UK Conservative party is somewhere to the left of your Democratic party.


    American politics is admittedly more conservative than ours but  I don't think that's true.
     I'm afraid it IS that bad , especially since they've changed the system to guarantee themselves five years , freeing themselves from any need to compromise
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #66 - May 08, 2015, 04:43 PM
    Well, what a stupid shitty result. What was Nicola Sturgeon thinking with her silly cmpaign and the idiots that voted SNP have ruined the country.

    The Conservatives are an atrocity committed on the welfare state, education and for the working person.

    UKIP should have more seats (almost 4 million votes) compared to the SNP's votes (1 1/2 million).

    Will the SNP stupidly vote to go independent? Scotland will not block the Conservative majority and is playing into Conservative's hands.

    Will there be enough idiots to vote the UK out of the EU?

    Damn, the future is bleak.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #67 - May 08, 2015, 04:46 PM
    Quote
    Lua. The Conservative Manifesto is available on the link below. These are the promises they will be expected to stick to (they probably won't) during the next government. Give it a quick skim, I think you'll agree that if they tried much of it in the USA they'd be accused of being communist or something.

    https://www.conservatives.com/manifesto


    Thanks, Rob.

    Although, actually, it's somewhat vaguely worded, but I don't think it contains anything too crazy for American politics, except perhaps the talk of healthcare (maybe I ought to do some googling to see precisely what they're referencing, because that could absolutely make them more aligned with one of our parties over the other), as lord knows Democrats have been pushing for healthcare reform for a while, which hasn't worked splendidly, but that's not for lack of want on the Democrat side as far as I can tell. The rest definitely sounds a lot like a Republican approach. Cutting the deficit is definitely a concern on both sides, too, although generally the devil is in the details and Republicans err more on the side of cutting public spending (which too often translates into having the poor and disadvantaged make greater sacrifices than the wealthy).

    Maybe I'd know what you were talking about if I was aware of the specifics, but this manifesto in itself seems pretty innocuous, I could see parts of it being approved of by both sides from the way this is worded.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #68 - May 08, 2015, 05:04 PM
    I personally wanted a Conservative-Lib Dem coalition to continue. Despite what people may say, I feel the Lib Dems, despite wielding little influence in the last cycle, managed to be a pretty good moderating force for the conservatives.

    The Conservatives are all right though. Some of the stuff I've read on the internet has been so utterly hysterical. People are acting like it's apocalypse or something. Secondly, the moral that some labour voters I've met are trying to find is hilarious.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #69 - May 08, 2015, 05:06 PM
    Agreed Descent! IMO people simply don't get coalitions or compromise. If people compromise the are seen as liars, or wolf in sheepskins.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #70 - May 08, 2015, 05:09 PM
    Quote from: aife on May 08, 2015, 04:25 PM
         Of course it's selective , I was making a point .
    Blair was only disliked after he'd been in office a few years and embroiled the country in a war. Thatcher was more complicated - many of us disliked her straight away but she had a lot of admirers .I remember the 79 election and a lot of people supported her partly because she was female and they felt she was a victim of sexism
      I'm concerned we're moving further towards American style politics , where it's all about 'personality' and image and how much money you spend on your campaign.
      Bevan was a great man and certainly had to deal with some serious opposition , but I don't think he  had film crews following him round watching him eat.
       -  As for the 'stabbing his brother in the back ' stuff , this really annoys me. Leading a political party (and possibly the country) is not like who gets to pick the TV channel ., or sit in the front of the family car . We already have a royal family and an establishment made up of people born to privilege , the Labour Party doesn't need to adopt the same principle


    Blair (privileged upbringing)  was voted in for a third term after he took the country to war. It was Ed's brother that claimed to have been stabbed. Miliband's upbringing was as privileged as Cameron's. We've had American style politics at least since Michael Foot was accused of wearing a "Donkey Jacket" at the Cenotaph.

    Labour lobotomised the party by inserting nodding heads into Scottish and Welsh constituencies where they perceived they had never-ending support. The Scottish voters rightly reacted to this insult. Someone like Nichola Sturgeon should have been a natural fit into the Labour party. Had she been leader, rather than Miliband, Labour would have won easily.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #71 - May 08, 2015, 05:19 PM
    Absolutely Rob. The non-Labour Labour party fails in its place of origin, common folk.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #72 - May 08, 2015, 05:20 PM
    Losing an election isn't the worst thing that can happen to a party.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #73 - May 08, 2015, 05:21 PM
    Milliband did have a privilegded upbringing , though not as much as Cameron , Clegg and Osborne.
    I agree with your second paragraph.
    Miliband also made an error in rejecting Sturgeon's offer of support. I think this drove away a lot of Scottish labour voters who would have feared yet another election where their votes ended up counting for nothing.
     Scottish independence is starting to look inevitable
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #74 - May 08, 2015, 05:22 PM
    I'm disappointed. Labour lost in my constituency which went to the Conservatives by a narrow-ish margin. I thought it was a safe seat. I quite liked my Labour MP.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #75 - May 08, 2015, 05:23 PM
    Quote from: Rob on May 08, 2015, 05:09 PM
    Had she been leader, rather than Miliband, Labour would have won


    I agree.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #76 - May 08, 2015, 05:24 PM
    Quote from: Descent on May 08, 2015, 05:04 PM
    I personally wanted a Conservative-Lib Dem coalition to continue. Despite what people may say, I feel the Lib Dems, despite wielding little influence in the last cycle, managed to be a pretty good moderating force for the conservatives.

    The Conservatives are all right though. Some of the stuff I've read on the internet has been so utterly hysterical. People are acting like it's apocalypse or something. Secondly, the moral that some labour voters I've met are trying to find is hilarious.


    I predict the next government being a car-crash. Cameron no longer has the compliant Lib-Dems keeping things easy for him. He now has a small majority and a whole lot of right-wing MPs wanting their way. He's going to find it difficult to be the one-nation Tory he thinks he is. I suspect his legacy is going to be UK leaving the EU in the same way that John Major's was the botched privatisation of British Rail. He's hoping to re-negotiate aspects of EU policy and then present that to the electorate as a reason to vote to stay in Europe. It isn't going to work because Germany and France will have none of it and are fed up with him.The referendum will see the UK out of the EU and the Scottish, already smarting from Tory campaign tactics are not going to like that one bit. This will be the game changer the SNP are looking for in order to call another referendum on leaving the UK. I really think this government is going to be one of the worse, time will tell.

  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #77 - May 08, 2015, 05:31 PM
    Quote from: asbie on May 08, 2015, 05:20 PM
    Losing an election isn't the worst thing that can happen to a party.


    Losing this one could mean Labour never again govern. Cameron will use devolution as a way of justifying fewer Scottish and Welsh seats at Westminster (it's one of their policies). If that happens it will be unlikely that Labour will ever take enough seats in England to form a government.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #78 - May 08, 2015, 05:43 PM
    Democracy as we know it will be over, the dead will rise, cats and dogs living together...
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #79 - May 08, 2015, 05:46 PM
    Ed Balls is quite charismatic, he should forget about supporting his wife as labour leader and go for it himself lol
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #80 - May 08, 2015, 06:19 PM
    I'm really disappointed in the result, what are people thinking? First time voting and labour won in my area which was always a safe seat. Looks like I'll be taking extra care protecting my house for when the conservatives stop paying the local crackheads.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #81 - May 08, 2015, 06:48 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 08, 2015, 05:43 PM
    cats and dogs living together...


    Stop citing the Green Party Manifesto!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #82 - May 08, 2015, 07:03 PM
    Quote from: suki on May 08, 2015, 05:46 PM
    Ed Balls is quite charismatic, he should forget about supporting his wife as labour leader and go for it himself lol


    He isn't even in Parliament. Lost his seat.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #83 - May 08, 2015, 07:13 PM
    oh right, i didn't know they had have a seat first to be a candidate..   like farage has lost his seat but says he may put himself forward as leader of ukip again
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #84 - May 08, 2015, 07:19 PM
    There are no rules about it but the big parties aren't going to elect a leader that isn't in Parliament. Nicola Sturgeon isn't in Westminster, but she's leader of the SNP. Same for Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein (though they won't take the seats they won), DUP and goodness knows who. Ed Balls will possibly get back in if he wants to. If there's a by-election in a safe Labour seat.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #85 - May 08, 2015, 07:59 PM
    As a (very lefty) Yank, I am speechless. After 20 years of neo-liberalism the British people chose to hand the Tories, who are already in power, a crushing victory??? Do people over there want the UK to become like the US, no public services, private health care, crushing debt, no government support, all-out tyranny but the ruling classes? What exactly made so many common people over the vote conservative? I am stunned.
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #86 - May 08, 2015, 08:06 PM
    Quote from: countjulian on May 08, 2015, 07:59 PM
    As a (very lefty) Yank, I am speechless. After 20 years of neo-liberalism the British people chose to hand the Tories, who are already in power, a crushing victory??? Do people over there want the UK to become like the US, no public services, private health care, crushing debt, no government support, all-out tyranny but the ruling classes? What exactly made so many common people over the vote conservative? I am stunned.


    I think it is largely due to a successful campaign of fear tactics from the Tories combined with a public lack of confidence in the other parties which has caused this result.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #87 - May 08, 2015, 08:51 PM
    I'm no expert on UK politics, but only the 2nd video of yeeze will have made me vote for Conservatives.

    Two months ago we had a team building and there were 2 colleagues, a Canadian who lives in UK and a British. In one evening we got out for a beer.   

    The Canadian who lives from 1 year in UK said that British welfare system is ruining the country. He said quote "encouraging people not to work, encourage immigration of low skilled working people... so it is absolutely plain stupid"

    My British colleague was not so harsh, but he pretty much agreed with him and he said that houses, rents are very expensive. Someone asked why don't you build houses and he said because of lack of infrastructure, as that there are no money to build infrastructure and you are struggling even to repair the one that you have. He said he spent a lot of money to change shock absorbers from his car which were damaged because you have holes in the asphalt (WTF.. is this true?).  To summarize he said that the welfare system is obsolete, outdated and unsustainable. 

    Now, as I said I'm not expert in UK politics but seems strange for me that people here want more welfare expenditures.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #88 - May 08, 2015, 09:15 PM
    Quote from: countjulian on May 08, 2015, 07:59 PM
    As a (very lefty) Yank, I am speechless. After 20 years of neo-liberalism the British people chose to hand the Tories, who are already in power, a crushing victory??? Do people over there want the UK to become like the US, no public services, private health care, crushing debt, no government support, all-out tyranny but the ruling classes? What exactly made so many common people over the vote conservative? I am stunned.


    65% of the people eligible to vote cast their vote. 36.7% of those that cast their vote, voted Conservative. A large proportion of those that voted Conservative wouldn't have voted for a person that actually got a seat in Parliament . Roughly 60,000,000 people live in the UK. As an estimate (based on 326 seats multiplied by 20,000 votes per seat) 6.5 million people voted for the government.
  • UK Election 2015
     Reply #89 - May 08, 2015, 09:25 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on May 08, 2015, 08:51 PM
    I'm no expert on UK politics, but only the 2nd video of yeeze will have made me vote for Conservatives.

    Two months ago we had a team building and there were 2 colleagues, a Canadian who lives in UK and a British. In one evening we got out for a beer.   

    The Canadian who lives from 1 year in UK said that British welfare system is ruining the country. He said quote "encouraging people not to work, encourage immigration of low skilled working people... so it is absolutely plain stupid"

    My British colleague was not so harsh, but he pretty much agreed with him and he said that houses, rents are very expensive. Someone asked why don't you build houses and he said because of lack of infrastructure, as that there are no money to build infrastructure and you are struggling even to repair the one that you have. He said he spent a lot of money to change shock absorbers from his car which were damaged because you have holes in the asphalt (WTF.. is this true?).  To summarize he said that the welfare system is obsolete, outdated and unsustainable. 

    Now, as I said I'm not expert in UK politics but seems strange for me that people here want more welfare expenditures.


    There are so many things wrong with what you've heard. But I'm a little too angry and frazzled at the moment to formulate a coherent reply.

    Only know this my friend: there is another side to this, another point of view, another truth, another world within the UK, and I will sit down one day, hopefully in some hazy yet beautiful sunshine somewhere, and tell you about this.
    Hi
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