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 Topic: Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America

 (Read 138346 times)
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  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #750 - February 21, 2017, 04:56 AM

    Seems like it has nothing to do with the travel ban.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #751 - February 21, 2017, 11:57 AM

    Really? How do you figure? I can't find any other info on that incident.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #752 - February 21, 2017, 05:14 PM

    Christians for Milo: https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffreyjcohen/status/833839066563096576
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #753 - February 21, 2017, 06:36 PM

    Silly cow.  Maybe she'd care to show us the part in the Gospels where Jesus advocates sex between grown men and 13 year old boys.   Roll Eyes

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #754 - February 21, 2017, 07:30 PM

    Seems like it has nothing to do with the travel ban.

    Really? How do you figure? I can't find any other info on that incident.

    I've just watched the Channel 4 News report on this and there's been no explanation other than the travel ban. The US embassy has refused to comment.

    Edit: report here - https://www.channel4.com/news/muslim-teacher-stopped-from-flying-to-us
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #755 - February 21, 2017, 08:44 PM

    Milo has resigned from Breibart.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #756 - February 21, 2017, 11:02 PM

    Lol at the cartoons

    http://www.attn.com/stories/14690/how-cartoonists-around-world-depict-trump?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=direct-share&utm_campaign=shares

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #757 - February 22, 2017, 10:50 AM

    Really? How do you figure? I can't find any other info on that incident.


    There was no information that the teacher was born in a nation on the list.  There was no reason stated for denial of entry. For all we know this teacher could have been flagged for having contact with someone on a blacklist or said something to land him on a blacklist. Likewise it could be an agent acting on their own. More so was he not inspected by authorities in Iceland not American authorities? There is too little information to conclude anything at the moment.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #758 - February 22, 2017, 10:51 AM

    I've just watched the Channel 4 News report on this and there's been no explanation other than the travel ban. The US embassy has refused to comment.

    Edit: report here - https://www.channel4.com/news/muslim-teacher-stopped-from-flying-to-us


    If he was not born in one of the nations on the list then it has nothing to do with the ban. Also US authorities are not obligated to tell anyone why they were denied.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #759 - February 22, 2017, 11:43 AM


    Silly cow.  Maybe she'd care to show us the part in the Gospels where Jesus advocates sex between grown men and 13 year old boys.   Roll Eyes

    Blog post on Milo and Rachel Brown: http://www.therenaivalist.com/blog/protecting-the-freedom-of-preach-aka-of-minstrels-and-fools
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #760 - February 22, 2017, 06:47 PM

    What narcissistic twat Bill Maher is, taking credit for Milo 's fall.
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/2017/2/22/14697358/bill-maher-milo-yiannopoulos
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #761 - February 23, 2017, 01:18 AM

    If he was not born in one of the nations on the list then it has nothing to do with the ban. Also US authorities are not obligated to tell anyone why they were denied.


    You assume that because he is a British citizen, assured exception to the ban by his citizenship, that then the ban is not behind this refusal of entry?
    Why would you assume that? If there was a reason behind his refusal, any black flag, why would the British government be pursuing the issue? For if there was a black flag, would not Britain have been informed by US authorities?
    Why was that ACLU lawyer detained for questioning during the weeks that the ban was suspended? You cannot claim that was NOT the ban.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #762 - February 23, 2017, 01:25 AM

    You assume that because he is a British citizen, assured exception to the ban by his citizenship, that then the ban is not behind this refusal of entry?
    Why would you assume that? If there was a reason behind his refusal, any black flag, why would the British government be pursuing the issue? For if there was a black flag, would not Britain have been informed by US authorities?
    Why was that ACLU lawyer detained for questioning during the weeks that the ban was suspended? You cannot claim that was NOT the ban.


    Oooooorrrrr.....someone on the no-fly list or who committed a more recent terror attack could have a similar name. That's been known to have happened. Like in this 2006 story of a 4 year old, or this 2010 one of an 8 year old, or in this 18 month old in 2012.


    Could just be your conformation bias + recency effect + some other psychological quirks making some instances stand out more than others. If there's no evidence that it's related and the TSA has been doing "random checks"/secret lists like this for some time, I don't see a reason to assume a cause/effect link. Incidentally, how many of her flights has this happened on? If she's a flight attendant I assume she's been on more than one flight in or out of the US during the past month.


    If it being a coincidence or due to another reason than Trump's presidency, such as laws and policies that have been on the books for 10-15 years, hasn't been or can't be ruled out, then i see no reason to jump to conclusions, no matter how i feel.


    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #763 - February 23, 2017, 02:36 AM

    Yes but he had a visa. He was not just on a jaunt. He had ALREADY been cleared in order to be granted the visa, and then was turned back at the final leg. They do inform you if it is because of drug convictions and etc. If it were typical the Welsh authorities would not be chomping all over this.
    This IS unusual.
    And the blacklists are easy to look up. Visas are not issued to people on any of those lists.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #764 - February 23, 2017, 02:57 AM

    Yes but he had a visa.


    What type of visa? Was it the correct type of visa for the trip he was planning on taking, or did he receive an incorrect visa?

    If it were typical the Welsh authorities would not be chomping all over this.


    Are you sure? It could just be a politically motivated attempt to win support from the electorate by politicians who feel that their interests are best served by throwing Trump under the bus. That does happen. Frequently.

    And the blacklists are easy to look up. Visas are not issued to people on any of those lists.


    Someone with the same name or a similar name could have been added between the time the visa was issued and the time when the person was scheduled to travel; considering the increased number of terrorist incidents in Europe in recent months, that's not an unlikely scenario.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #765 - February 23, 2017, 08:19 PM

    Arizona Senate votes to seize assets of those who plan, participate in protests that turn violent
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #766 - February 24, 2017, 01:30 PM

    You assume that because he is a British citizen, assured exception to the ban by his citizenship, that then the ban is not behind this refusal of entry?


    The ban is regarding nations. Unless he was born in one of those nations the ban claim does not apply. However this does not mean the denial of entry was not based on a bias held by the agents themselves or some policy we do not know about. That is a possibility.

    No as per the "If". Beside if he was born in one of the banned nations just say it outright. The lack of putting forward this claim leads me to conclude he was not born one of those nations

    Quote
    Why would you assume that? If there was a reason behind his refusal, any black flag, why would the British government be pursuing the issue?


    I was tossing out alternative possibilities that people are not voicing as it is far more convenient to talk about the ban regardless of evidence.

    Quote
    For if there was a black flag, would not Britain have been informed by US authorities?


    There is no way of knowing what America told the UK or what the UK itself knows. Again the US is not obligated to release such information. I was tossing out possibilities.

    Quote
    Why was that ACLU lawyer detained for questioning during the weeks that the ban was suspended? You cannot claim that was NOT the ban.


    Again nothing to do with the ban but an agent being suspicious. Pakistan is not on the ban list. Again this could be agent bias or policy we do not know about. You are very quick to jump to a conclusion regarding the ban when by law it is not applicable in the above situations.

    The EO has created a situation in which there is a battle of "power" between two branches of government between Judicial and Executive branches regarding which order to follow. There are divisions at a middle management level as well with different supervisors dictating which orders to follow to the agents below them. More so the judicial order has zero enforcement power as the Judaical branch has no organized force to maintain it's orders. It has no military nor are the police under it's control. Hence why pro-Executive supporters are calling the hold order a power grab and following directives from their superiors which are part of the Executive branch. Likewise some that see the hold order as part of the American system of government, thus valid, maintaining the hold order. Far too many within these agencies have been left to their own devices while many agency leaders are being indecisive or refusing to place themselves at risk.


  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #767 - February 25, 2017, 02:30 AM

    Wow. Ya'll are so very quick to assume every agent and every branch of government is following to the exact letter the new regulations and that none of the news out there has anything at all to do with our changing cultural climate.
    You are disregarding an awful lot of things (personal testimonies) happening from the White House all the way to foreign airports. I am glad neither of you have experienced any unlawful or unfair happenings from any agent of the US government.
    The "spirit" of the ban is being felt in a lot of places, and it is not anything new, sadly enough. I prefer to listen to the people being governed and affected by laws or the aftermath of these regulations rather than to the government line if I want to understand the effects.
    But perhaps I am just an old hippy who spent too much time close to the rez. 


    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #768 - February 25, 2017, 02:32 AM

    What type of visa? Was it the correct type of visa for the trip he was planning on taking, or did he receive an incorrect visa?

    Are you sure? It could just be a politically motivated attempt to win support from the electorate by politicians who feel that their interests are best served by throwing Trump under the bus. That does happen. Frequently.

    Someone with the same name or a similar name could have been added between the time the visa was issued and the time when the person was scheduled to travel; considering the increased number of terrorist incidents in Europe in recent months, that's not an unlikely scenario.


    This is grasping at straws.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #769 - February 25, 2017, 06:55 AM

    Muhammad Ali jr. detained at Florida Airport

    http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/02/24/muhammad-ali-jr-detained-immigration-fla-airport/98376180/

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #770 - February 25, 2017, 08:19 AM

    It's possible that that is the effect he is having on some of the people who work at the TSA, but given their record during the last 15 years, I'd say that anyone who was strongly motivated by xenophobia instead of something like just needing the money or whatever was probably already in the TSA. I don't think there have been enough new hires in the last month to have changed things too drastically, and given that the EO was already struck down, it's not having a policy impact anymore, which means that as long as the people in the TSA who are motivated by xenophobia continue acting within the bounds of the law, things haven't actually gotten much worse [compared to the Obama administration].


    Nothing new is happening besides political violence by antifa and other far left groups. The rest is all just media hype and pointing to anecdotes about things Trump is doing that fall well within the bounds of the law and of what previous presidents have done, as if he's the only one doing them and he's worse than all the other previous presidents because of those things. He's an asshole, but he's not literally Hitler. He's probably a racist, but as long as he acts within the bounds of the law and doesn't do anything particularly immoral, I'm just going to sit here and wait out the next four years. I think that all this hyping his actions up to be so much worse than they are is creating a situation where when he does something that is actually bad, everyone will be so sick of people crying wolf that nothing will get done about it.


    I would write a new response but it's obvious you've totally missed the point of my previous ones. Until I see evidence--not anecdotes and personal testimonies--about how things have gotten worse or how the conditions are now intolerable/unlivable, I really don't care. If you present nothing substantive, I'm going to assume you have nothing substantive. And that's not me being a Trump apologist, I'm applying skepticism to your claims. Your claims are failing to hold up to scrutiny which is the fault of your claims, not the scrutiny. Bring better claims. Or alternately, just say that facts don't matter to you and you prefer to live your life based purely on how you feel about things, and we can have an argument about that instead.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #771 - February 25, 2017, 09:35 AM

    If it wasn't meant to be a Muslim ban and people aren't being profiled on the basis of their names and the way they look, how does one explain this:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/muhammad-alis-son-detained-under-trumps-travel-ban-where-did-you-get-your-name-from-are-you-muslim-a7598841.html?cmpid=facebook-post
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #772 - February 25, 2017, 10:36 AM

    Wow. Ya'll are so very quick to assume every agent and every branch of government is following to the exact letter the new regulations and that none of the news out there has anything at all to do with our changing cultural climate.


    Hardly. You didn't read my post

    Quote
    You are disregarding an awful lot of things (personal testimonies) happening from the White House all the way to foreign airports. I am glad neither of you have experienced any unlawful or unfair happenings from any agent of the US government.


    And you need to read the EO and the hold order from the 9th distinct. Just because people have trouble at the airport does not mean it is the EO every time.

    Quote
    The "spirit" of the ban is being felt in a lot of places, and it is not anything new, sadly enough. I prefer to listen to the people being governed and affected by laws or the aftermath of these regulations rather than to the government line if I want to understand the effects.


    Oh yes the spirit... Is this the new slogan to use when you can not pinpoint specifics nor cited evidence?

    Quote
    But perhaps I am just an old hippy who spent too much time close to the rez. 


    Or you are too quick to blame the EO and Trump so ignore other issues like I brought up


  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #773 - February 25, 2017, 11:20 AM

    If it wasn't meant to be a Muslim ban and people aren't being profiled on the basis of their names and the way they look, how does one explain this:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/muhammad-alis-son-detained-under-trumps-travel-ban-where-did-you-get-your-name-from-are-you-muslim-a7598841.html?cmpid=facebook-post


    Profiling based on religion is pretty common these days and has been for over a decade. The reasons should be evident by now.

    The article is making grand claims based on nothing. The EO was on hold days for Jr was detained. Ergo it has nothing to do with it. It is probably a policy we do not know about or agents acting on their own in which they have a wide powers to do so.

    Moral arguments are a horrible basis for laws
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #774 - February 25, 2017, 11:54 AM

    Deported with a valid US visa, Jordanian says message is 'you're not welcome'
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #775 - February 25, 2017, 12:03 PM

    I am glad neither of you have experienced any unlawful or unfair happenings from any agent of the US government.


    Pffffft. Who told you that? I've been stopped in airports and at the border. I haven't traveled internationally in the past 10 years because I've been broke, but before that I did, and my dad (who is significantly darker than me) got singled out for extra screening. When I drove, I got pulled over more often than anyone I knew (now the government pays for me to take taxis everywhere). I often see a police car outside my apartment as if they're watching me. But I know that I have paranoia. So before I freak out and assume everything is just me being the victim, I step back and ask "is that the most reasonable explanation for this, or are there other possible explanations that I should eliminate first?" I know that just sitting back and letting your paranoia warp your perception of the world makes life far more difficult than it has to be. I grew up in, for all intents and purposes, chattel slavery, and yet I still believe most people aren't out to get me, most people just don't care one way or the other and don't give me a second thought.

    You probably wouldn’t worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do! -- Olin Miller

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #776 - February 25, 2017, 12:20 PM

    Profiling based on religion is pretty common these days and has been for over a decade. The reasons should be evident by now.

    The article is making grand claims based on nothing. The EO was on hold days for Jr was detained. Ergo it has nothing to do with it. It is probably a policy we do not know about or agents acting on their own in which they have a wide powers to do so.

    Moral arguments are a horrible basis for laws


    Just out of curiosity,what's your general take on "Muslim Ban" in general?

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #777 - February 25, 2017, 12:41 PM

    Just out of curiosity,what's your general take on "Muslim Ban" in general?


    My take on it as a concept, setting aside the moral and legal issues: It would be ineffective. I do think we should do better screening; and by that I mean not "more screening" but "smarter screening". I think checking people's *public* social media profiles would actually be a good place to start. I don't think that's equivalent to reading private communications or what in the old days would have been letters, like it would be to go through their emails or texts; I think it's essentially the same as reading their newspaper columns or publicly distributed pamphlets.

    I think Europe and Germany in particular should significantly increase screening of the people who have gone there claiming to be refugees. The vast majority (about 70% according to the estimates I've seen) are not from war zones, they're from Morocco or other North African countries. The horrific increase in crime, especially sex crimes, that they've brought is reason enough to start cracking down. The overwhelming majority aren't the people we'd normally care about protecting from war, either, such as civilian women and children; they're almost all men in their 20s-30s, and many of them have lied about their ages. I think that Germany needs to get their shit together. Start by deporting every single migrant who was involved in a crime. Second, implement screening at the border instead of in camps near Britain and crack down on human traffickers carrying people across the border for cash. Third, deport anyone who wasn't a legit refugee and was instead an economic migrant.

    America hasn't had the problems that Germany has had. That's mainly because the people getting to Germany went there on foot and they can't get here on foot because of the oceans. So putting those kinds of restrictions in place here is unnecessary (for now; but if Germany doesn't get their shit sorted out, we might have to adjust our policy with regard to EU member state visas).

    Also, if we do decide to go that route, we need to seriously reevaluate our "allies", and in particular Saudi Arabia and the UAE. They weren't on the list but everyone knows they're the main funders of terrorism everywhere, from ISIS to Anjem Choudary, and we really need to stop them from giving money to our politicians, schools, and mosques. If you want to kill the monster, cut off its head, not its tail.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #778 - February 25, 2017, 01:00 PM

    Would you be in favour of the deportation of the people on this forum who arrived in Europe (or the UK or US) as economic migrants rather than refugees? or who for one reason or another may have lied about their age or some aspect of their past? or who may have committed a crime of some kind since they arrived?
  • Donald Trump wants to ban Muslims from America
     Reply #779 - February 25, 2017, 01:14 PM

    This sounds like something that a Xenophobic South Africans would say about Nigerians bringing drugs,scam and prostitutions to their beloved rainbow nation.




    I think Europe and Germany in particular should significantly increase screening of the people who have gone there claiming to be refugees. The vast majority (about 70% according to the estimates I've seen) are not from war zones, they're from Morocco or other North African countries. The horrific increase in crime, especially sex crimes, that they've brought is reason enough to start cracking down. The overwhelming majority aren't the people we'd normally care about protecting from war, either, such as civilian women and children; they're almost all men in their 20s-30s, and many of them have lied about their ages. I think that Germany needs to get their shit together. Start by deporting every single migrant who was involved in a crime. Second, implement screening at the border instead of in camps near Britain and crack down on human traffickers carrying people across the border for cash. Third, deport anyone who wasn't a legit refugee and was instead an economic migrant



    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
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