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Theme Changer

 Topic: A New member named elle

 (Read 49773 times)
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  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #120 - November 09, 2008, 08:58 PM

    How could I be sure you are straight? See what I mean?


    You could watch his videos and judge for yourself:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=3658.msg94635;topicseen#new

    Hassan is the most straight up guy I know.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #121 - November 09, 2008, 09:35 PM

    How could I be sure you are straight? See what I mean?

    What Burbles said. Hass is one of the most credible people around. If he says something there is always a possibility that he is mistaken, but he doesn't bullshit. He and Burbles are friends in real life too.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #122 - November 09, 2008, 10:02 PM

    Can we put Tut back in damnation for a while longer? I much rather keep elle then Tut.



    wtf why?
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #123 - November 09, 2008, 10:03 PM

    tut, baal doesn't know what he's talking about.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #124 - November 09, 2008, 10:04 PM

    I think the fact that you're certified makes him uneasy.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #125 - November 09, 2008, 11:07 PM

    Can we put Tut back in damnation for a while longer? I much rather keep elle then Tut.



    wtf why?


    I'd much rather keep Elle and Tut - but get rid of Baal  grin12
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #126 - November 10, 2008, 09:46 AM

    Hassan, I have PM'd you. Hope you assess me after that.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #127 - November 10, 2008, 10:03 AM

    Thank you all for wanting to keep me. At least if my introduction could get 1516 hits and 126 Posts, that must contribute something to this site? Shall I continue to stimulate you guys? I have just done so with Hassan by Personal Mail. Let's see how he reacts.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #128 - November 10, 2008, 10:09 AM

    Elle, there is Two aspects when discussing islam.

    Islamology: Discussing Islamic material (most books) and rulings explicit and implicit.

    Muslimology: Discussing muslims.


    Most ex-muslims are very weary of damaging muslims while discussing islam. And I recommend you steer clear of engaging in muslimology (even/specially with Westerners) unless/until you really know what you are doing, after several years even I still avoid muslimology.

    To give you an example, the title of your piece was "Ambiguities in the koran" (Islamology), you discussed abrogation (Islamology), then you veered off to "Islam is Pease" (muslimology). "Islam is Peace" is never mentioned in any authentic islamic book, it is only said and repeated by non-arab muslims as a way to be able to sleep better at night.

    Now you notice no one jumped you for discussing 'abrogation' (Islamology). I recommend that for now, you stick to discussing islam and if you were to discuss muslimology then be very specific and avoid generalization.

    Here is an example of muslimology generalization that you should avoid and never repeat:

    Hey Hassan good to see you again, did you check the latest Google Trends, remember that exercise? How come muslim ruled and muslim majority populations always show up on top when we conduct this search? Why are they so deprived in the land of Taqwa and Iman? I know we make fun of Catholic priests and stuff but I do not see Italy or Spain in that list, how come? wtf is up with that and plz make sure all the kids around you do not end up in that loop. Good to see you again buddy Smiley


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #129 - November 10, 2008, 11:32 AM

    How could I be sure you are straight? See what I mean?


    You cant if you believe in this taqqiya nonsense which makes even ex-muslims "suspect"

    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #130 - November 10, 2008, 12:02 PM

    Elle, there is Two aspects when discussing islam.

    Islamology: Discussing Islamic material (most books) and rulings explicit and implicit.

    Muslimology: Discussing muslims.


    Most ex-muslims are very weary of damaging muslims while discussing islam. And I recommend you steer clear of engaging in muslimology (even/specially with Westerners) unless/until you really know what you are doing, after several years even I still avoid muslimology.

    To give you an example, the title of your piece was "Ambiguities in the koran" (Islamology), you discussed abrogation (Islamology), then you veered off to "Islam is Pease" (muslimology). "Islam is Peace" is never mentioned in any authentic islamic book, it is only said and repeated by non-arab muslims as a way to be able to sleep better at night.

    Now you notice no one jumped you for discussing 'abrogation' (Islamology). I recommend that for now, you stick to discussing islam and if you were to discuss muslimology then be very specific and avoid generalization.

    Here is an example of muslimology generalization that you should avoid and never repeat:

    Hey Hassan good to see you again, did you check the latest Google Trends, remember that exercise? How come muslim ruled and muslim majority populations always show up on top when we conduct this search? Why are they so deprived in the land of Taqwa and Iman? I know we make fun of Catholic priests and stuff but I do not see Italy or Spain in that list, how come? wtf is up with that and plz make sure all the kids around you do not end up in that loop. Good to see you again buddy Smiley



    Baal, well that is a new one on me, i.e. the separation between, Islamology and Muslimology. I have never come across the latter until this moment. I always was under the impression that they were tightly intertwined and inseparable. I personally would find it an impossible task trying to discuss one without involved the other. Do you, Baal, have some secret formula that you are able to separate the two?
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #131 - November 10, 2008, 12:40 PM

    Thank you all for wanting to keep me. At least if my introduction could get 1516 hits and 126 Posts, that must contribute something to this site? Shall I continue to stimulate you guys? I have just done so with Hassan by Personal Mail. Let's see how he reacts.


    Hi Elle,

    I hope you will forgive me if I decline your request that I read and respond to some of your articles posted here.

    I have decided that although I will pop in here from time to time (and respond to things that I feel motivated to) - I am not going to get to drawn into too many discussions. For one thing I simply don't have time. For another thing I've become a little bored of going over the same ground again and again. And finally I tend to get a bit too irritated at times at certain posts/posters.

    However I have a great deal of respect for many of the posters here who know their stuff and I'm sure they can say things as well as - or better than I could.

    Smiley

  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #132 - November 10, 2008, 02:39 PM

    Hassan, What a brilliant reply? finmad
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #133 - November 10, 2008, 06:10 PM

    Elle, there is Two aspects when discussing islam.

    Islamology: Discussing Islamic material (most books) and rulings explicit and implicit.

    Muslimology: Discussing muslims.


    Most ex-muslims are very weary of damaging muslims while discussing islam. And I recommend you steer clear of engaging in muslimology (even/specially with Westerners) unless/until you really know what you are doing, after several years even I still avoid muslimology.

    To give you an example, the title of your piece was "Ambiguities in the koran" (Islamology), you discussed abrogation (Islamology), then you veered off to "Islam is Pease" (muslimology). "Islam is Peace" is never mentioned in any authentic islamic book, it is only said and repeated by non-arab muslims as a way to be able to sleep better at night.

    Now you notice no one jumped you for discussing 'abrogation' (Islamology). I recommend that for now, you stick to discussing islam and if you were to discuss muslimology then be very specific and avoid generalization.

    Here is an example of muslimology generalization that you should avoid and never repeat:

    Hey Hassan good to see you again, did you check the latest Google Trends, remember that exercise? How come muslim ruled and muslim majority populations always show up on top when we conduct this search? Why are they so deprived in the land of Taqwa and Iman? I know we make fun of Catholic priests and stuff but I do not see Italy or Spain in that list, how come? wtf is up with that and plz make sure all the kids around you do not end up in that loop. Good to see you again buddy Smiley



    Baal, well that is a new one on me, i.e. the separation between, Islamology and Muslimology. I have never come across the latter until this moment. I always was under the impression that they were tightly intertwined and inseparable. I personally would find it an impossible task trying to discuss one without involved the other. Do you, Baal, have some secret formula that you are able to separate the two?

    Basically, if you talk about action as done by and to muslims, then you are discussing muslimology, if you describe scripture then islamology.

    Another differentiation is Actions. If you attack an action as described by islamic scripture, then it is islamology. If you discuss the same action as performed by some muslims, then it becomes islamology.


    Example: If you are complaining that some muslims stoned that 13yr old girl in somalia and that some other muslim spectators gave their lives trying to save her, then this is muslimology. If you discuss that islamic scriptures permit the stoning of a 13yr old girl then you are discussing islamology.

    Usually talking about muslimology will be filed under: Hate against a group, Appeals to numbers, Appeals to the exceptions, Appeals to the vivid, etc.

    As for a good safety lock to proceed if you are not sure is to, pretend that being muslim is a race. Anything you would not say in public about blacks, chinese, indians, jews, whites, etc. , you should refrain from saying about muslims. Now I know that being muslim is not a race but generally they are more touchy about it then if they were actually a race.

    Now I will engage in some muslimology:
    For many muslims they identify with islam more then their race, their nationality, their profession or their role as a parent. If you ask people to describe themselves in One word, a person might say, student, father, doctor, engineer, mother, teacher, etc. But for most muslims in islamic countries, the majority will describe themselves as 'muslim'. This is why you are safe if you treat islam as a race even though I do not believe it to be a race. And this is also why muslim apostates usually suffer a minor/major identity crisis when they leave the "True Deen".



    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #134 - November 10, 2008, 06:40 PM

    Baal, thanks for the explanation but it sounds too complicated for me. Would you mind all that much if I discussed Islam/Muslim in the way I am accustomed to? Muslims should not be so sensitive. I have defined a Muslim as a "Person who adheres to the Islamic religion, who lives his life in accordance with the Pillars of Islam, who has declared the shahada, and accepts that the Koran is the word of Allah and that Mohammed was his final prophet, regardless of his race or colour or nationality." Am I wrong?
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #135 - November 10, 2008, 08:42 PM

    Baal, thanks for the explanation but it sounds too complicated for me. Would you mind all that much if I discussed Islam/Muslim in the way I am accustomed to?

    Yes I do mind. I can only assist you so many times before i give up.

    Muslims should not be so sensitive.

    Yes, but unfortunately... Everybody else is sensitive, the problem is islam is so bad that we are entering their own houses to tell them it is bad. If you are entering people's houses, then the least you should be is super-sensitive.

    I have defined a Muslim as a "Person who adheres to the Islamic religion, who lives his life in accordance with the Pillars of Islam, who has declared the shahada, and accepts that the Koran is the word of Allah and that Mohammed was his final prophet, regardless of his race or colour or nationality." Am I wrong?

    Not really. Islam is not meant to be followed. Islam specializes is implementing so many rituals that a human being is bound to not follow them. It is part of islam guilting and belittling its followers into submission. Some muslims will get bouts of piousness in their lives and try to follow islam but eventually they all get tired one way or another or go completely nuts. The average muslim will pick and choose what he/she is willing to follow and what will 'guiltilly' be left behind.

    I would definitlly leave "follow the Five pillars" out of that definition and your definition will be much more accurate. Some muslims gave up on prayer, Tunisia banned haj, etc. Some muslims consider jihad to be a sixth pillar, some consider jihad to be an internal struggle (in opposition to the islamic definition of jihad). A lot of muslims and religious people believe in the first pillar being 'al istihbal - plaing dumb'. It often is the most widely used pillar in almost all religions.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #136 - November 10, 2008, 09:10 PM

    Baal,  You seem to be very sceptical about Islam. Isn't this an open house? If not it should not be on the web?
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #137 - November 10, 2008, 10:01 PM

    Baal, thanks for the explanation but it sounds too complicated for me. Would you mind all that much if I discussed Islam/Muslim in the way I am accustomed to? Muslims should not be so sensitive. I have defined a Muslim as a "Person who adheres to the Islamic religion, who lives his life in accordance with the Pillars of Islam, who has declared the shahada, and accepts that the Koran is the word of Allah and that Mohammed was his final prophet, regardless of his race or colour or nationality." Am I wrong?


    That is a major problem in the perception of Islam in today's society.

    I think Baal pretty much summed it up, but how can you define what a Muslim is when some Muslims themselves have arguments trying to prove which sect is Muslim and which isn't. I know the sect which I was born into would definitely classify another sect that proves Jihad as a pillar of Islam, to be un-Islamic.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #138 - November 11, 2008, 07:38 AM

    Heartbomb, are you from the groups who preaches, Love for All and Hatred for none?"

    We will have a power cut from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm so all electrical appliances will be isolated in this home. How boring. See you later. elle
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #139 - November 11, 2008, 07:44 AM

    Yea, the Ahmadiyya are using that slogan now elle, at least here in N. America

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #140 - November 11, 2008, 07:47 AM

    Heartbomb, are you from the groups who preaches, Love for All and Hatred for none?"

    We will have a power cut from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm so all electrical appliances will be isolated in this home. How boring. See you later. elle


    Yes I am.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #141 - November 11, 2008, 08:14 AM

    Hello Elle

    Baal gave a very good explanation, but here are my 2cents.

    Muslims follow islam as much as employees in any company follow company rules, as usual some work hard, and some barely do the work. Most try to start and leave work during company hours.

    You say you've worked all over the world, so I am sure the company analogy might strike a chord with you... I hope.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #142 - November 11, 2008, 12:50 PM

    Baal,  You seem to be very sceptical about Islam. Isn't this an open house? If not it should not be on the web?

    Plz re-iterate? I can not understand what you mean.

    The part I said about saving your ass is because unless you separate islam from muslims, you will keep getting bashed and I will have to keep lawyering for you.


    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #143 - November 11, 2008, 12:55 PM

    Pro bono?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #144 - November 11, 2008, 12:59 PM

    Muslims follow islam as much as employees in any company follow company rules, as usual some work hard, and some barely do the work. Most try to start and leave work during company hours.


    That was funny whatabastor Cheesy  and pretty accurate too!
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #145 - November 11, 2008, 06:04 PM

    Heartbomb, Thank you! I guessed as much, since most have left Pakistan and live abroad now.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #146 - November 12, 2008, 05:01 AM

    Muslims follow islam as much as employees in any company follow company rules, as usual some work hard, and some barely do the work. Most try to start and leave work during company hours.


    That was funny whatabastor Cheesy  and pretty accurate too!


    Glad you liked it... thats how it is with almost every religion, school, company, family... u name it
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #147 - November 12, 2008, 06:00 AM

    Heartbomb, Thank you! I guessed as much, since most have left Pakistan and live abroad now.


    Yes, it's expanding worldwide, although there are some members of the Ahmadiyya sect still living primarily in Rabwah.
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #148 - November 12, 2008, 08:49 AM

    elle... are you here to do a research for a book or an assignment?
  • Re: A New member named elle
     Reply #149 - November 12, 2008, 09:43 AM

    whatabastor, I wanted to find out about Islam and to understand why Islam has such a strong influence on 1.2 billion people. That is why I have done a lot of research about Islam, but I have not studied Islam in isolation because it is one of the important cultures of our universe, I have also attempted to understand Islam's inaction with Hinduism, Christianity, even Communism and Capitalism. I doubt if I will ever stop learning something new each day. But I am still doing research in all religions and cultures. I could one day write a book.

    Believe me when I tell you I began by researching, my own roots, and then "British Colonial History" then WWII.  All this captivated my imagination, and one thing led to the next. I am still learning and hence I am here.
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