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 Topic: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.

 (Read 229475 times)
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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #180 - March 25, 2012, 04:53 PM

    yeezevee : Sorry , but a prayer in Islam is very important , and it doesn't take 5 minutes , as for some translations that I think they are the closest to the Arabic language , there is Justice Mufti Taqi Usmani which I find accurate , there is also Moulana Mohiuddin Khan , but English is not my language so I might be wrong in some parts , and by the way , I made a thread in (One on one matches ) , would you go there ?

    sturmgewehr : Firstly , I ant to know , what do you people want ? Sometimes they say that religion and science are different and so Quran can't be from God because it's not a religion book , sometimes they say that there is no science in Quran therefore it can't be from God , how come ? and anyway , here's one thing that I personally wrote :
    http://anticlaims.wordpress.com/
    It's about Pulsars and it even has a reply to some tries to debunk this fact , if you had something new then you are welcome to say it
    Secondly : Sky and Earth WERE together according to the theory of Big Bang , they were one little orb ( Or something ) , and then they got separate in the explosion , or am I wrong in that - - ? when you have a ball full of air , then the ball exploded because you fill it too much , then doesn't that mean Air ( Earth atmosphere ) and Rubber of the ball ( Ground ) split ?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #181 - March 25, 2012, 04:58 PM

    Harakat : Honestly , that's a big book - - ( More than 2000 pages ) So if you think there is something wrong then give me the page and I'll see


    Ya habibi, it's a lexicon. I clearly wasn't suggesting you read it cover to cover.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #182 - March 25, 2012, 05:05 PM

    Pertinax : Quran says that heaven ( Space , Atmosphere , universe , all the 7 heavens ) is expanding , and there is no argument in that , as for the video , I told you that this is an inaccurate translation , so check my first reply in the thread , and who said that EARTH was meant by the word ( Ardh ) In Arabic , it also means ground , and even if it is EARTH that has split from heaven ( Sky , the rest of the universe ) then that is correct , because all the universe was at one point then split with the big bang , as for his Objection 2 , he didn't bring a verse saying that , so how can we approve of what he said , an anyway , every single atom in this universe plays a role in creating it , so why don't the atoms of earth play a role in that ?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #183 - March 25, 2012, 05:07 PM

    حركات : أعرف يا حبيبي ، لكنك مسلم سابق ، صحيح ؟ إذن أنت تعترض على حقائق علمية في القرآن ، صحيح ؟ إذن أخبرني ما هي و ماذا يقول المعجم مما ينفي توافق القرآن مع العلم
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #184 - March 25, 2012, 05:14 PM

    هذه السلسلة من الفيديوهات تفي وتزيد:

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE463E6D6891DEF37&feature=plcp

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #185 - March 25, 2012, 05:17 PM

    Ok , I'll see it and bring you the proof that these claims are wrong , wait few minutes , I'm going to Isha Prayer
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #186 - March 25, 2012, 05:20 PM

    sturmgewehr : Firstly , I ant to know , what do you people want ? Sometimes they say that religion and science are different and so Quran can't be from God because it's not a religion book , sometimes they say that there is no science in Quran therefore it can't be from God , how come ? and anyway , here's one thing that I personally wrote :
    http://anticlaims.wordpress.com/
    It's about Pulsars and it even has a reply to some tries to debunk this fact , if you had something new then you are welcome to say it
    Secondly : Sky and Earth WERE together according to the theory of Big Bang , they were one little orb ( Or something ) , and then they got separate in the explosion , or am I wrong in that - - ? when you have a ball full of air , then the ball exploded because you fill it too much , then doesn't that mean Air ( Earth atmosphere ) and Rubber of the ball ( Ground ) split ?


    First of all Quran is not from God cuz it is written by fallible people with fallible medieval primitive logic.

    And not The earth and the sky were never together, you obviously don't know what the Big Bang theory is.

    Also since you are an Arab from Mecca I would like to hear your opinion on this subject:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19938.msg574652#msg574652

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #187 - March 25, 2012, 05:21 PM

    Hey, I don't want you to get the wrong idea -- I'm not interested in Islam, at all. I gave you that series for your own benefit. If you want to argue, argue with someone else, like the maker of the videos. I'm bored of discussing Islam; I've done it for years.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #188 - March 25, 2012, 05:25 PM

    Hey, I don't want you to get the wrong idea -- I'm not interested in Islam,

    ... If you want to argue, argue with someone else, like the maker of the videos.
     I'm bored of discussing Islam;

     I've done it for years.

    that is a funny response harakat... lol..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #189 - March 25, 2012, 05:43 PM

    Harakat : As you please

    sturmgewehr : Once again , you gave me no proof that it was written by a man , so how do you ask me evidence , and read this page about some common claims about Quran , and since you say I don't know what's the theory , then tell me what is it , and tell me what do you think about mentioning the Pulsars in Quran
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #190 - March 25, 2012, 05:44 PM

    sturmgewehr : Sorry , forgot the link :
    http://norasensation.wordpress.com/category/the-noble-quran/
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #191 - March 25, 2012, 05:49 PM

    "Nora's Sensation"? Are you a girl?

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #192 - March 25, 2012, 05:53 PM

    sturmgewehr : Once again , you gave me no proof that it was written by a man , so how do you ask me evidence , and read this page about some common claims about Quran , and since you say I don't know what's the theory , then tell me what is it , and tell me what do you think about mentioning the Pulsars in Quran


    I don't need you to supply you with any proof it was written from man, Islam itself says it was written from man.

    You give me proof it was written by god, you made the Claim first that Quran is God's book, get your facts straight.

    I am obviously not interested in Educating you here, what the Quran says is that THE EARTH and the SKY once were Together which is completely false and then god separated them, this is all faulty logic because Heaven and Earth have never been together.

    The Quran is talking about the Process of God separating the heaven from the earth like heaven and earth were 2 object together and he took them apart.

    There was no heaven no earth in the beginning of the universe, the Earth was formed somewhere between 7 - 8 Billion's later after the Big Bang.

    Did you check my thread, I am interested in your opinion since you are a native speaker of the Arabic language, here is the link again:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19938.msg574652#msg574652

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #193 - March 25, 2012, 06:02 PM

    Harakat : This isn't my blog , it's another person's , and no , I'm a boy

    sturmgewehr : WHERE does Quran says it was written by man ? as for seperating Sama ( Which is heaven or sky or space or universe ) I don't know how to describe it to you in English , so here's these pages :
    http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t154318.html
    http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t115476.html
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #194 - March 25, 2012, 06:06 PM

    ^ ^

    You are obviously not interested in discussing the subject, all you wanna do is come here and spam the forum with nonsense from other websites.

    I am sorry I am not gonna read all that nonsense, if you wanna discuss you can discuss here if not don't copy paste me different websites from different sources.

    I am discussing with you not with what someone has written in some other forum.

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #195 - March 25, 2012, 06:35 PM

    Very well , I will discuss it with you .
    what you mainly deny is that heaven and earth were not joined together , but the big bang theory itself says that the universe was a small cube that exploded ( internally ) and is still expanding , and I told you that the word Smaa means many things other than heaven , our sky ( Earth atmosphere ) is also Sama , and clearly , it is made of Gases , right ? and these Gases have a mass ( Actually , there is no empty space in the universe ) so they were split from earth in the state when they were dust and gases , when they actually split from the sun ( Sun sent a mass of it in a shape of dust and gas , and this was Earth before its final shape , therefore , when meteors hit this mass of dust , it split Sama ( Atmosphere ) from Ardh ( Which might also mean ground as I told you ) Ok ? doesn't that make since ?
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #196 - March 25, 2012, 06:37 PM

    Sorry , I'll complete it with you later , I have to go for now
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #197 - March 25, 2012, 06:43 PM

    Quote from: Akahoshi
    1 - clearly states that heaven and earth were joined together but they were separated


    that has no resemblance to the big bang.

    Quote from: Akahoshi
    2. where does God states that sun is swimming around Earth ?


    Where does it say that the earth orbits the sun?
    It doesnt literally say either, but the former is a much simpler and obvious interpretation of it. We dont have to show that its wrong. . All we have to do is show that it is not scientifically miraculous as the Muslims claim.  

    Quote from: Akahoshi
    3. So the verse clearly states that space is expanding


    No it doesnt. It says that Allah is the expander. This is different from Allah is still expanding.
    If you score the winning goal in a football match. you (still) ARE the scorer of the winning goal. This does not mean that you are still scoring the goal as we speak.  It does not say that the universe is STILL expanding. It says that Allah is STILL the expander of it, just as you would STILL be the winning goalscorer.

    Quote from: Akahoshi
    4 -"The 7 heavens in Islam is NOT the same as you think"


    if 'heavens' is not the same as 'universe' then you can no longer claim that the quran talks of an expanding universe.


    Quote from: Akahoshi
    we'd really like it if you brought accurate translations


    not one of your 'corrected' translations made the slightest difference
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #198 - March 25, 2012, 06:54 PM

    what you mainly deny is that heaven and earth were not joined together , but the big bang theory itself says that the universe was a small cube that exploded ( internally ) and is still expanding


    It was not a small cube, it was the highest and most dense state of energy with the highest imaginable temperature at a point, I don't know what cube are you talking about.

    In that form or cube if u want to say it would be impossible for the earth and the sky to exist together and to be split later cuz matter could not exist in such a high state of temperature thus earth neither sky didn't exist back then.

    Quran hardly says anything in that verse, it is vague, it is just repeating an ancient Sumerian myth and that is about it.

    You can still delude youself that the Quran says that but it doesn't, what the Quran says is that The Earth as an entity was together with the Sky and God Separated the earth from the sky, this is false even if sky in that case means Universe or space because the earth was not separated from the sky and you are obviously not making the distinction that the earth is just organized matter formed 7 - 8 Billion years later after the expansion not at the expansion or explosion.



    and I told you that the word Smaa means many things other than heaven , our sky ( Earth atmosphere ) is also Sama , and clearly , it is made of Gases , right ?


    Good Job by the perfect book being vague.



    so they were split from earth in the state when they were dust and gases


    Except that earth didn't exist back then, how can something be split from something else when it didn't exist in the first place Huh?


    when they actually split from the sun ( Sun sent a mass of it in a shape of dust and gas , and this was Earth before its final shape


    Blla blla blla, there was not even sun back then, there were some big stars way bigger than the biggest star that exists nowadays and those stars died and formed smaller stars and then there was a different process but earth DID NOT EXIST in order to be separated from heaven.

    That kind of babble applies to everything, that can be applied even to me, STURMGEWEHR AND JUPITER WERE TOGETHER AND THEN WE CLOVE THEM ASUNDER, this is also true by your Osama Abdullah and Rashid Khalifa Logic LOOOOL



    Ok ? doesn't that make since ?


    no it doesn't, it is vague it is hardly coherent and I checked one of the links you supplied, I saw your so called facts, Osama Abdullah is trying to make connection between something he hardly understands and a verse that hardly says anything.

    I laughed at the Ostrich Egg shape of the Earth, if the Quran says the Earth's Shape is like that of an Ostrich Egg then it is definitely false and it is wrong.


  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #199 - March 25, 2012, 07:07 PM

    Look at this page , I answered you ( I wrote the answer ) :
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=20189.new#new
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #200 - March 25, 2012, 07:14 PM

    @ Akahoshi:

    and I already replied to that here, you said the same pretty much.

    What u saying is that u can't see how Quran can be wrong when saying that the Earth and the Sky were together and got split, well there is becuase there was no earth back then Smiley

    You also fail to realize that the Quran is talking about the Earth, the planet Earth not about the Material which the planet is made of, Quran is talking about the Earth the concept of this round ball like planet which u think resembles and Ostrich Egg  dance which doesn't even say Ostrich Egg in the first place but anyways, the Quran is talking about the Round PLanet Earth being Together with the Sky and separated which is 10000% false because back then there was no earth and earth does not refer to the energy or the gass or whatever you might be beguiling yourself with, Earth is a human concept referring to this planet not to energy or particles or shit like that.

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #201 - March 25, 2012, 07:27 PM

    And I repeat , who told you that Ardh only means Earth , it also means ground , if Ardh came meaning the planet then the planet mass has existed when the universe was at one small place , then it split from Samaa which also means universe , if Ardh came meaning ground then that is also true , because meteors hit it when it was dust and gas and then ground split from sky ( Earth atmosphere ) , I don't see what is wrong with that , it says that Ardh split from Smaa , and it is correct with both meanings of Ardh and Samaa
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #202 - March 25, 2012, 07:58 PM

    And I repeat , who told you that Ardh only means Earth , it also means ground


    it could mean Unicorn as far as I am concerned, that is not the point at all because neither the Earth nor the ground nor the Unicorns existed back when energy started expanding, didn't explode, the terminology exploded is dubious, the correct word would be it expanded and ground, earth, unicorns, garden elfs, Gnoms who steal my underwear didn't exist back then so it is wrong.

    Ardh came meaning the planet then the planet mass has existed when the universe was at one small place


    It seems that you are not reading my posts carefully, I would ask you to carefully scrutinize what I wrote above, I never said mass didn't exist I said EARTH or GROUND didn't exist back then, you are committing a logical fallacy of composition, the planet mass of course has existed back then but it wasn't a PLANET and the quran is talking about a tangible and palpable object called Ground or Earth not about the Mass that composes the earth, you seem not to be able to make the distinction between EARTH or GROUND which are concepts for our planet or the ground under our feet and Earth doesn't apply to Mass, earth doesn't mean mass earth and ground means what it is supposed to mean.

    It doesn't matter if that mass that composes the earth has existed before because the word EARTH is not used to describe the Mass that has existed before, it is rather used to describe the Spherical ball like Planet we live in not the mass.

    Your argument of composition is similar to something like this:

    1. Humans are made of Cells

    2. Cells are invisible

    3. Thus Humans are invisible because cells are invisible

    Well it doesn't work like that, even though earth is made of mass and basically everything is made of mass the word Earth doesn't refer to the mass it rather refers to the Planet we live in, the habitat we live in and coexist or the ground refers to the ground we step on, on our everyday life.

    Now what the Quran is talking about is EARTH or GROUND as the tangible object we see everyday, the Quran is not talking about mass, you and Osama Abdullah are making it look like that, the Quran is not saying THE MASS OF THE EARTH AND THE MASS OF THE SKY ONCE WERE TOGETHER, no it doesn't, it says THE EARTH or Ground which is a concept that refers to our planet and the ground to the surface of the earth where we walk on, it says these 2 Objects were then back together and they weren't especially ground which was formed 7 - 8 billions later after the big bang, ground didn't exist back then, if we go by that logic then I also existed back then because the mass I am made of existed back then as well.

    I also made a parallel analogy to you so u can see how fallacious your Argument is:

    STURMGEWEHR AND JUPITER WERE TOGETHER AND WE CLOVE THEM ASUNDER.

    this hardly means anything and it hardly is scientific.



    then it split from Samaa which also means universe


    it didn't split from the universe this is stupid, to split from the universe means Not to be part of the universe anymore, we all know earth is still part of the universe and has never split from the universe, earth and the sky or ground or unicorns got formed withing the universe and never split.

    if Ardh came meaning ground then that is also true , because meteors hit it when it was dust and gas and then ground split from sky ( Earth atmosphere )


    yeah yeah yeah, I trashed this already.

    I don't see what is wrong with that , it says that Ardh split from Smaa , and it is correct with both meanings of Ardh and Samaa


    You are just repeating yourself, the Big Bang concept is SOOOOO HUGE you have no idea, it is so pathetic that you are trying to make it look so simple, there are whole books written on the concept of the universe and the Ayah you quoted has nothing to do with the Big Bang as I already explained.

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #203 - March 25, 2012, 09:09 PM

    Look , even f we agree on your first view of that Earth didn't exist in the big bang , there is still the forming of Earth when it was mere dust and Sky was mere gas , so as I said , Ardh ( Ground ) split from Samaa ( Atmosphere ) , they were mere dust and gas , meteors hit them , they split and formed Earth and its atmosphere , ok ? and by the way , I checked Google translation , even the English word (Earth) means also ground
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #204 - March 25, 2012, 09:18 PM

    As for what you say that you already trashed before ( Watch your words please ) then I don't remember , could you "Trash" it again
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #205 - March 25, 2012, 09:37 PM

    Farewell , I'll turn in , and I'll be back tomorrow
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #206 - March 25, 2012, 11:24 PM

     
    Look , even f we agree on your first view of that Earth didn't exist in the big bang , there is still the forming of Earth when it was mere dust and Sky was mere gas


    Nonsense, you don't even read the Ayat, it says THE EART AND SKY were separated, that obviously NEVER happened.

    That Ayat is plain dead wrong. ( talking about the Big Bang the Ayat claims to say )

     so as I said , Ardh ( Ground ) split from Samaa ( Atmosphere )


    No it didn't, they formed simultaneously and neither earth neither atmosphere split from each other, actually they never were together in order to split.

    I don't know why is it so hard for you to fathom this simple fact, that verse is probably plagiarized Sumerian myth.

    The earth in the beginning as being in a gaseous state had neither Atmosphere nor ground, the gaseous state of the earth prior the formation of the earth and the atmosphere never contained any EARTH nor SKY, the Quran is actually saying WE SPLIT THE EARTH FROM THE SKY which means the Earth = x and the Sky = y were XY, that means the earth Existed as it is today in this form and the atmosphere existed as it is in this form but where together and then they were split asunder to X and Y, there was no earth and sky in the gaseous state of the new coming planet in order to be split apart.

    Not to forget that now you are being intellectually dishonest, you changed your position very fast, you went from THAT VERSE EXPLAINS THE BIG BANG and Origin of the Universe to That verse explains the origin of the earth.

     they were mere dust and gas , meteors hit them , they split and formed Earth and its atmosphere


    It is pretty clear that even you believe there was an Earth and a Sky before the earth was formed, lol, there was no THEM to be bombarded by meteors, there was only gas, now I hope you will see the foibles of that Ayah because there was no THEM (Earth+sky) to be split, there was gas and it was a process where the earth and the atmosphere formed simultaneously and that is it.

    As I said that verse can be used to describe even your origin because it is vague, you also proved how vague it is by changing your position from Origin of the Universe to the Origin of the earth.

     and by the way , I checked Google translation , even the English word (Earth) means also ground


    I don't see how will that change anything, I told you even if the word Earth means Underwear Gnomes it won't make any difference.


    Also I want to know why are you averting my question about the Ostrich Egg?? You posted a link where it said the earth had the shape of an Ostrich egg.

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #207 - March 26, 2012, 12:10 AM

    Akahoshi if I taught my children about Spiderman and made them read and study Marvel comics from birth, on top of telling them that Spiderman actually exists, they'd believe it.  One would question my parenting skills if I told my children to believe spiderman is real and forced them to pray to a holy cobweb thousands of miles away. I would make my daughter wear a spiderman mask to preserve her modesty, when in fact I'm just showing my male dominance amongst the spiderman believers. They'd be sat looking out the window, hoping to catch a  glimpse of the amazing web-wonder swinging from building to building, seeking out and catching the bad guys. But of course, they'll never see that happen, nor will you, or your children, or your children's children, noone will...We couldn't prove Spider-Man's existence by describing the beauty of nature...We couldn't simply put faith in his existence and leave it at that...

    Akahoshi ... dude seriously it's better to live for just 5 mins with some self-dignity rather then live your whole life as part of a herd in complete subservience to a totalitarian despotism ..you are better then that
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #208 - March 26, 2012, 12:26 AM

    ^ THAT'S SO FUCKING COOL!!! I'M TOTALLY STARTIONG A SPIDWEMRAN RELIGIONAA

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an Debunked.
     Reply #209 - March 27, 2012, 10:08 AM

    ..............
    here's one thing that I personally wrote :
    http://anticlaims.wordpress.com/
    It's about Pulsars and it even has a reply to some tries to debunk this fact , if you had something new then you are welcome to say it..............


    The Koran does not mention pulsars. The word " Tariq " in surah 86:1-3 refers to the planet Venus
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/27224058/No-Pulsars-Mentioned-in-the-Koran
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