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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Polygamy, with the consent and knowledge of all parties involved, should be  (Voting closed: February 18, 2010, 06:54 PM)
  • outlawed in all forms - 2 (10.5%)
  • decriminalized but with no legal recognition by the state - 4 (21.1%)
  • decriminalized and recognized under civil law - 13 (68.4%)
  • Total Voters: 19

 Topic: Polygamy

 (Read 17021 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Polygamy
     OP - February 11, 2010, 06:54 PM
    And just so you know it's a crime in many countries such as the United States. In some states it's felony, in others it's a misdemeanor.
    In the UK, it is not performed but contracts performed overseas are recognized for the purposes of welfare only. I'm not sure if it's a criminal offence though.

    And put two things in mind:
    -I am only taking about consensual polygamy between adults.
    -The right would be extended to both men and women.

    Now let me elaborate on the options:
    Option 1: Polygamy should be outlawed in all forms. If we discover that a party of one man and 3 women (or vice versa) are cohabiting and having kids then they should be arrested and prosecuted even if none of them complained or reported abuse.
    Option 2: Polygamy should be decriminalized but not recognized by the state. Marriage contracts can be performed by religious institutions (such us by a Muslim sheikh or by the Mormon Church).
    You might say that this is the current legal status; however, it is not. Many jurisdictions forbid religious institutions from performing polygamous marriage contracts.
    Option 3: Polygamy should be decriminalized and recognized under civil law for the purposes of taxation, immigration, welfare...etc

    Personally, I am torn between 2 and 3. I would love to hear what you think and please don't turn this into another incest thread.  Smiley
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #1 - February 11, 2010, 07:00 PM
    The 3rd one. 

    Same with polyandry, it should be the right of the individual what kind of union/s they want to enter in to, the 3rd option so that when they do, their rights are as protected as others.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #2 - February 11, 2010, 07:07 PM
    What Berbs said. Polygamy with full informed consent between adults should be legal. But only as long as it includes both polygyny AND polyandry. Otherwise, it's a tool for patriarchal slavery as in Islam or Mormonism and other cults.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #3 - February 11, 2010, 07:21 PM
    Good on you both  Afro

    And BTW, polygamy includes both polygyny and polyandry.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #4 - February 11, 2010, 07:30 PM
    Too many different terms these days, it's all too confusing lol.  Tongue
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #5 - February 11, 2010, 07:36 PM
    Outlawed in all its forms. Muslim women are living lives of misery in Britain because of bigamist Muslim men.

    No recognition - zero tolerance, hardline principle.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #6 - February 11, 2010, 08:04 PM
    third option..
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  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #7 - February 11, 2010, 09:26 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 11, 2010, 07:36 PM
    Outlawed in all its forms. Muslim women are living lives of misery in Britain because of bigamist Muslim men.

    No recognition - zero tolerance, hardline principle.

    Don't you think that's kinda ad hoc ?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #8 - February 11, 2010, 09:39 PM
    Quote
    Don't you think that's kinda ad hoc ?


    The lived reality for women who are in polygamous marriages is hell on earth - I have a friend was in a polygamous marriage. They are loathsome.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #9 - February 11, 2010, 09:45 PM
    I'd go with 3rd choice but Billy makes a good point. I hold until further notice need to think more. The rights of some oppressed over the rights of those who want to live their lives.

    Billy. They do polygamy anyways, muslims don't recognize marriage outside shariah. So even banning this wouldn't matter, it wouldn't decrease or increase in muslim world, it might increase in contracts in english legal world.

    Sorry for the bad english, read too many Kope posts. Please cope (drum roll for bad joke that somebody else has already made).

    What do you think?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #10 - February 11, 2010, 10:01 PM
    Quote
    Billy. They do polygamy anyways, muslims don't recognize marriage outside shariah. So even banning this wouldn't matter, it wouldn't decrease or increase in muslim world, it might increase in contracts in english legal world.

     

    I know - but in Britain, Muslims need to be forced to submit to the Marriage Act like every other religion does, and have the informal nikkahs in which Muslim girls and women are caught like flies in a spider web in a legal wasteland and limbo condemned to misery ended. Polygamy is bigamy - and it is illegal in Britain. I am all for drawing a line in the sand in the UK, cutting through the haze and lazy acceptance of this, and after making Muslims submit to the Marriage Act, start putting imams who perform polygamous marriages knowing that the man is already married into prison, and all the men who do so too.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #11 - February 11, 2010, 10:03 PM
    Damn this is tough. I want to see reform in the Muslim world. Not really sure how that's gonna happen. Do we enforce it? That's not right. Or do we do it through education? Do we hope the next generation will be naturally against it? In the form of marrying a wife no matter what.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #12 - February 11, 2010, 10:11 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 11, 2010, 09:39 PM
    The lived reality for women who are in polygamous marriages is hell on earth - I have a friend was in a polygamous marriage. They are loathsome.




    Are you talking about an islamic/patriachal version of polygamy in which women have no rights and only men get to have the right to more than one? 

    I'm against that, but if grown up people want to marry more than one partner, and everyone is actually willing, isn't that their right?  Didn't a woman in india? marry two guys recently?

    I want to have that right because you never know, I might find 2 men lovable enough to want to keep and they might be cool with it, and we might want to formalise it.  ...........Well I can hope can't i?  Cheesy



    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #13 - February 11, 2010, 10:11 PM
    lol
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #14 - February 11, 2010, 10:26 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 11, 2010, 10:11 PM
    Are you talking about an islamic/patriachal version of polygamy in which women have no rights and only men get to have the right to more than one? 

    I'm against that, but if grown up people want to marry more than one partner, and everyone is actually willing, isn't that their right?  Didn't a woman in india? marry two guys recently?

    I want to have that right because you never know, I might find 2 men lovable enough to want to keep and they might be cool with it, and we might want to formalise it.  ...........Well I can hope can't i?  Cheesy


    Lets eradicate the patriarchal misery it causes primarily in the Muslim community first and then think about it  Afro


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #15 - February 11, 2010, 11:05 PM
    3rd option. Time for a BIG orgy baby  dance
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #16 - February 11, 2010, 11:09 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HBdRCroks&feature=related
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #17 - February 11, 2010, 11:31 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 11, 2010, 10:11 PM
    I want to have that right because you never know, I might find 2 men lovable enough to want to keep and they might be cool with it, and we might want to formalise it.  ...........Well I can hope can't i?  Cheesy

    Absolutely, you should have a right to get married to two guys if you so wish. However in real life things are a bit more complicated and reality of polygamy for most appears to be quite grim.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #18 - February 12, 2010, 04:22 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 11, 2010, 10:26 PM
    Lets eradicate the patriarchal misery it causes primarily in the Muslim community first and then think about it  Afro

    Forget about the Muslims in the UK for a second. What if right now there was a bill in the legislature of the State of Utah to decriminalize polygamy, would you support it?
    Just wanted to see where you stand on the issue.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #19 - February 12, 2010, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 11, 2010, 11:31 PM
    Absolutely, you should have a right to get married to two guys if you so wish. However in real life things are a bit more complicated and reality of polygamy for most appears to be quite grim.



    Isn't this more down to the current polygamous way of life being set up to purely favour a man and his rights?

    One on one marriage is also pretty grim if you go by statistics and the trend of divorce, but it's legal and in more modern countries it's set up to protect the rights of the people engaging in it, just as it should be for polygamy.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #20 - February 12, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Of course it should be decriminalized the government has no right to dictate what consenting adults get up-to in the privacy of their own homes.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #21 - February 12, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 12, 2010, 04:51 PM
    Isn't this more down to the current polygamous way of life being set up to purely favour a man and his rights?

    One on one marriage is also pretty grim if you go by statistics and the trend of divorce, but it's legal and in more modern countries it's set up to protect the rights of the people engaging in it, just as it should be for polygamy.

    True! This is a very tricky and complex issue.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #22 - February 12, 2010, 05:05 PM
    Quote from: King Tut on February 12, 2010, 04:55 PM
    Of course it should be decriminalized the government has no right to dictate what consenting adults get up-to in the privacy of their own homes.


    The government has every right to regulate marriage because it gives tax breaks, social welfare breaks, inheritance rights and other perks to married couples.  Should a man be allowed to have three women in his life as long as the women consent?  Of course, and he already does, there is no law against it.  Should he get tax breaks for all three of them?  Fuck off!  The state's strapped enough for cash as it is. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #23 - February 12, 2010, 05:09 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 12, 2010, 05:05 PM
    Should a man be allowed to have three women in his life as long as the women consent?  Of course, and he already does,

    Not really Cheetah. It's a crime in many jurisdictions.

    Quote from: Cheetah on February 12, 2010, 05:05 PM
    The government has every right to regulate marriage because it gives tax breaks, social welfare breaks, inheritance rights and other perks to married couples.

    You mean you're with the 2nd option, right?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #24 - February 12, 2010, 05:11 PM
    Quote
    Not really Cheetah. It's a crime in many jurisdictions.


    Which jurisdictions?

    Quote
    You mean you're with the 2nd option, right?


    The second option is the status quo, afaik.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #25 - February 12, 2010, 05:18 PM
    Quote from: Cheeta
    Which jurisdictions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#By_country
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_the_United_States

    Quote from: Cheetah
    The second option is the status quo, afaik.

    No. It's illegal in many countries. The 2nd option is decriminalizing it without any recognition under civil law. Basically what you're arguing for.

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist's first post on February 11, 2010, 06:54 PM
    Option 2: Polygamy should be decriminalized but not recognized by the state. Marriage contracts can be performed by religious institutions (such us by a Muslim sheikh or by the Mormon Church).
    You might say that this is the current legal status; however, it is not. Many jurisdictions forbid religious institutions from performing polygamous marriage contracts.

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #26 - February 12, 2010, 05:20 PM
    IA, it is illegal nowhere that I know of for a man to move four women or whatever into his house and take turns sleeping with them all, (as long as they consent).  That's as decriminalised as it needs to be.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #27 - February 12, 2010, 05:27 PM
    Yeah but that's not marriage that's sex. Now you tell me is a Mormon church allowed to perform a marriage ceremony b/t a woman and a man who's already married? I don't think so because "illegal" means religious institutions are forbidden from carrying out such ceremonies.
    Also, cohabitation is illegal in many US states,
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #28 - February 12, 2010, 05:30 PM
    Quote
    Yeah but that's not marriage that's sex.


    That's their business, and anyway there would usually be a relationship involved as well as sex.  All that's missing is a marriage cert, and that they should not be entitled to.

    Quote
    Now you tell me is a Mormon church allowed to perform a marriage ceremony b/t a woman and a man who's already married? I don't think so because "illegal" means religious institutions are forbidden from carrying out such ceremonies.


    Good.  Let it stay forbidden.

    Quote
    Also, cohabitation is illegal in many US states,



    Which ones, and what punishments do they use for cohabiting couples?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #29 - February 12, 2010, 05:37 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on February 12, 2010, 05:20 PM
    IA, it is illegal nowhere that I know of for a man to move four women or whatever into his house and take turns sleeping with them all, (as long as they consent).  That's as decriminalised as it needs to be.


    What about the children?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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