Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 09:57 PM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
Today at 09:44 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 05:55 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Yesterday at 07:11 AM

Gaza assault
Yesterday at 04:36 AM

New Britain
May 13, 2025, 07:40 PM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
by akay
May 10, 2025, 01:22 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
May 10, 2025, 10:45 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
May 10, 2025, 08:24 AM

Pope Francis Signals Rema...
May 09, 2025, 05:32 PM

Kashmir endgame
April 24, 2025, 05:12 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
March 29, 2025, 01:09 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: I believe in reincarnation

 (Read 15234 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #60 - March 24, 2010, 12:14 AM

    thanks Afro
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #61 - March 24, 2010, 02:49 AM

    Qman


    Qman is not my username, please show respect by referring to me using my full username. Thank you.

    fuck you
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #62 - March 24, 2010, 04:48 AM

    lol Smiley

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #63 - March 24, 2010, 09:22 PM

    They say that in each life you learn lessons that you take with you into your next life, I say you learn those lessons through certain stages of THIS life and take them with you into the next stage of THIS life.
    Who's with me in my new belief?   dance


    If you say that the learning of these "lessons" can take the exterior shell of different "individual" people, whether people who are obviously "yourself" at different moments of "your" life, but also other shells of people from tyrants and deniers to Prophecy itself -- then I'd say the Qur'an supports your belief in reincarnation. At least within Tailorite Sufism. Ultimately there is a distillation process, in which "parts" of "you" (the ummah) are thrown into the fire and other "parts" of your ummah are taken into the gardens of paradise ...

    Mine is similar (though NOT identical in certain respects) to the Orthodox Jewish belief in reincarnation which is given a modern twist here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu4PiFzl4Ck

    Love and Light,

    The Tailor

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #64 - March 25, 2010, 12:28 AM

    then I'd say the Qur'an supports your belief in reincarnation. At least within Tailorite Sufism.

    Do you suffer from the Jersusalem complex too?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #65 - March 25, 2010, 12:30 AM

    If you say that the learning of these "lessons" can take the exterior shell of different "individual" people, whether people who are obviously "yourself" at different moments of "your" life, but also other shells of people from tyrants and deniers to Prophecy itself -- then I'd say the Qur'an supports your belief in reincarnation. At least within Tailorite Sufism. Ultimately there is a distillation process, in which "parts" of "you" (the ummah) are thrown into the fire and other "parts" of your ummah are taken into the gardens of paradise ...



    Huh?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #66 - March 25, 2010, 01:16 AM

    Do you suffer from the Jersusalem complex too?


    Are you referring to the Jerusalem syndrome?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    I would say, yes, in a way. Maybe in reverse -- because my delusions have got me TO Jerusalem -- at least momentarily Smiley

    Anyhow, I flirted with phrasing things in terms of "reincarnation" already in my recent Freud post here -- and am toying with going more public with it ... but I'm already in enough hot water as it is, so I might keep it here for the moment.

    All I mean is that the "ummah" is not just an external nation. It is a selfhood, a body: your selfhood, composed of a multiplicity of different voices and little lives, little becomings. Go back to your copies of the Qur'an and re-read the bits about hellfire, for example, as a description about a distillation or burning of the "negative" voices/tendencies/aspects/drives in your head. And the bits about reward as a description of an ascent of the "positive", illuminated/self-aware/authentic aspects of the self. Then the stuff about destruction and recreation of Ummahs is very interesting, and the resurrection of a "witness" over an Ummah to speak on their behalf.

    I honestly believe that Prophecy perceived everything around him as aspects of his "self" -- relating again to the Freud discussion here. When he spoke to Umar, he was speaking to an aspect of the self. Similarly with his relationship to polytheists, enemies, hypocrites, wives, etc.

    In Sufism, cycles and "Past lives" do enter into this reading of the Ummah ... in that we have within ourselves previous precursor psychic archetypes (for example, each of us has an Umar and an Ali and a Fatima inside as "past lives").

    L&L,

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #67 - March 25, 2010, 01:19 AM

    Go back to your copies of the Qur'an and re-read the bits about hellfire, for example, as a description about a distillation or burning of the "negative" voices/tendencies/aspects/drives in your head. And the bits about reward as a description of an ascent of the "positive", illuminated/self-aware/authentic aspects of the self. Then the stuff about destruction and recreation of Ummahs is very interesting, and the resurrection of a "witness" over an Ummah to speak on their behalf.


    How about throwing the Quran in the shitter and just thinking for yourself? How about speaking plainly about EXACTLY what you mean, instead of creating a mess of metaphors and mystical bullshit (because lets admit it, thats what it is).

    And I really am not trying to be rude to you personally. I just think some of this mystical stuff is just a last ditch but very creative attempt for you to reconcile yourself with Islam and taking metaphorical readings to the extreme.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #68 - March 25, 2010, 08:10 AM

    Peace,

    Iblis, out of everyone in this forum, you have spoken directly and Truthfully to me. Iblis speaks the Truth (through al-Haq) to the Tailor in the post above, though his mode of speech is adversarial.

    You are of course not the first: I've been speaking to the wider ummah and a number of similar Iblisan voices within that community have repeated your second paragraph. Out of love for all voices, this is why I have made a solemn pledge to the Muslims not to "claim" anything more than simply "I made all this up: all your standard interpretations are Islam, while mine is an Islam that is not".

    Let it be known that what I say is absolute invention. That is, I have vowed to them not to "reconcile" at all, but to separate and distinguish -- until the FINAL last ditch effort, the End of Days, when the Seal of Tailoring will be broken.

    But another way of putting this is -- why shouldn't I refer to the Qu'ran, given that it was dictated directly to me (and me alone) in a previous bodily incarnation?  whistling2

    L&L

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #69 - March 25, 2010, 04:09 PM

    lol I totally have no clue what you're saying. I guess I'm just dense when it comes to metaphorical spiritual talk.


    Btw, I like you, in a homosexual way. I'm adverserial and rather rude to people I'm sexually attracted to.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #70 - March 25, 2010, 10:00 PM



    But another way of putting this is -- why shouldn't I refer to the Qu'ran, given that it was dictated directly to me (and me alone) in a previous bodily incarnation?  whistling2

    L&L

    TT

    Why do you believes this?  I sometimes wonder if you are taking the piss out of us. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #71 - March 25, 2010, 10:20 PM

     Cheesy

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #72 - March 25, 2010, 10:26 PM

    Hi The Tailor!

    This is ot but still ...

    What is your take on Tariq Ramadan, Zia Sardar and the like?

    Also I have noticed that the face on your avatar is blurred. Hardly a coincidence methinks.

    Oh yeah! Interesting post on reincarnation. Like always.
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #73 - March 25, 2010, 10:38 PM

    @IL:

    Far from it!

    It is quite strange: things that would be probably raise no eyebrows when said over at one of the Sufi internet forums I frequent -- that Adam was reincarnated thousands of times over or that the Qur'an was dictated directly to me -- are very peculiar here. And in a mainstream Islamic forum would get me all kinds of threats.

    The things that get the Sufis irritated with me -- is my citing Lacan and modern western materialist philosophy -- they are suspicious of anything too intellectual and not experiential enough. And my inner troll (Umaric Id-like tendency the brawl with the polytheists at Kabaa) can't help flipping things and discussing the experiential stuff to the Salafis and the philosophy to the Sufis. And you guys are sort of a waystation where I do a bit of both ...

    That aside, perhaps the simplest, most straightforward way of explaining that the Qur'an is dictated to "me" ... is to refer back to this Freudian model of the psyche we were discussing. If you accept a Freudian like model of the psyche ... and if Prophecy IS something like the super-ego (for me it is closer to that than to the ego, which I would equate more with Pharoah, actually), in control of an ummah of the id ... then that means that every human being is their OWN ummah, containing their OWN little Prophecy sitting at the top of their skull, receiving divine inspiration. [As a side note, I prefer the Lacanian model here, where the "ego" of illusion and fascism is more clearly distinguished from a true "subject" of selfhood -- which I take to be something quite like the Sufi notion of Prophecy.]

    The Sufi attempts to awaken this aspect that, for most, is simply hidden. Most people are not pure id (Newcastle on a Saturday night is an exception) -- but most people are driven solely by their ego, which is a miniature Pharoah that governs and polices their behaviour out of fear and fascism. We oppress ourselves (and from that -- become oppressed by others -- observe how in history, the majority often volunteers to be under a fascist leader). The Sufi overcomes the animal id AND the Pharonic ego-oriented internal fascism of the mind ... by opening up a Prophecy inside their skulls that perceives reality for what it truly is : a field of signs of Love.

    When this occurs, the Sufi will often say peculiar things that cannot be readily understood -- not because he is in some way "above" others, but simply because he is using language in an entirely different way to how everyone else uses it. He's doing something like these old caligraphers:
    http://www.sca.org.au/lochac/artsci/images/scribes/bird.jpg
    Encountering a physical reality from the signs that make up the purely virtual reality (Matrix-style) game that we normally inhabit.

    Importantly, within each person is an ummah that includes a Pharoah and a Prophet (as well as a whole lotta wives!). There is no "objective" way of reading the Qur'an -- it is all subjective interpretation -- the mainstream has no basis to claim objectivity apart from their own claims. This should be true of any Holy Book -- but forget Holy books -- it's even more true of life itself!

    But another way of saying no objectivity is to say -- there is only ONE true way to read life (including Qur'an): to personally awaken your inner, true subjectivity and read as though being spoken to by ... well ... as this is an atheist forum, let's call it the mysterious Love (that might well be just imagination or another part of us, or might be a feeling of mystery that transcends our being ... but nevertheless is Inspiring).

    Love and Light,

    The Tailor

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #74 - March 25, 2010, 10:44 PM

    @Kenan

    A quick note regarding Ramadan -- I understand his intentions, but I don't respect him as a reader of Qur'an and hadith. He simply doesn't understand them. Which is fine, most people don't -- but he has made a career out of misinterpretation. (That said, so have a whole bunch of sheikhs, so why not?) I would say there are many secular thinkers who say what he is arguing for -- only more thoughtfully. We do not need God to achieve Ramadan's aims Smiley

    I wrote a little piece in reaction to his last book "Radical Reform", here:
    http://thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/ijtihad/

    L&L,

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #75 - March 25, 2010, 10:47 PM

    Encountering a physical reality from the signs that make up the purely virtual reality (Matrix-style) game that we normally inhabit.

    To see the reality in the illusion?
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #76 - March 25, 2010, 10:58 PM


    The tailor - wouldn't you be better off being a Hare Krishna or Buddhist or something  Huh?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #77 - March 25, 2010, 11:04 PM

    No disrespect guys but I would strongly advise you against dissing something you don’t understand.
    I find his reading of the Quran both very intellectually puzzling and very productive.
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #78 - March 25, 2010, 11:25 PM

    I wasn't dissing him at all.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #79 - March 25, 2010, 11:34 PM

    not directly no
    my post was directed at everybody
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #80 - March 25, 2010, 11:43 PM


    Not indirectly either.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #81 - March 25, 2010, 11:46 PM

    I never meant to diss him. I genuinely like Tailor, I guess I just don't understand it.. maybe I'm not cut out for metaphysical/metaphorical/poetic ways of thinking perhaps?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #82 - March 25, 2010, 11:52 PM

    Seriously, I don't believe anyone has ever dissed me here. When I am properly dissed (as I have been in other quarters), there are some cosmic repercussions! You wouldn't like the Tailor when he gets angry ... But all I've got from CEMB is useful feedback and open mindedness, which is why I always enjoy my visits.

    L&L,

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #83 - March 25, 2010, 11:54 PM

    Not indirectly either.

    ok dissing maybe is a strong word
    what was the underlying implication of your original post?

    I never meant to diss him. I genuinely like Tailor, I guess I just don't understand it.. maybe I'm not cut out for metaphysical/metaphorical/poetic ways of thinking perhaps?

    having at least some insight into postmodern philosophy would help
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #84 - March 25, 2010, 11:55 PM

    To see the reality in the illusion?


    Precisely: the force is strong in this one!

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #85 - March 25, 2010, 11:56 PM

    having at least some insight into postmodern philosophy would help


    Perhaps. Any good books for a retard n00b like me?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #86 - March 25, 2010, 11:56 PM

    The Tailor - would you say that your conception of id and ego both being tamed by the prophecy is rational? In other words, do you expect to be able to give a completely reasonable account of exactly what it is and how it works or do you think that language can only approach this subjective view asymptotically?

    I ask because from the limited number of mystics and sufis that I have studied, ineffability seems to be the best description of the view that is opened up once one reaches this stage. Rationality, so to speak, is the ladder to get there but once you get to the top you have to throw the ladder away - is this a fair description of the subjective viewpoint that sufis aim to attain?

    I look forward to your answer.  Smiley

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #87 - March 26, 2010, 12:00 AM

    ok dissing maybe is a strong word
    what was the underlying implication of your original post?


    There wasn't anything underlying it. It was just a question. I think he got the wrong end of the stick mate.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #88 - March 26, 2010, 12:11 AM

    I think he got the wrong end of the stick mate.

    This precisely is the implication. Problem is that in order to make an assumption like that you would have to truly understand what he is talking about. Not saying that I totally understand him btw. It's all quite hazy.
    And I do apologise billy I didn't mean to diss you. lol
    I shouldn't have used the term "dissing" in my original post - way too strong. Hence the confusion.
  • Re: I believe in reincarnation
     Reply #89 - March 26, 2010, 12:14 AM

    @ Iblis
    check your inbox

    your IQ ~ 160 is, retarded you are not
    -Master Yoda
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »