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Theme Changer

 Topic: Women

 (Read 63649 times)
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  • Re: Women
     Reply #60 - April 08, 2010, 11:15 AM

    I detect a logical fallacy...for those who would like being fat or would not mind being fat if it were not for the ridicule they are subject to... why should they have to either deal with being the subject of jokes or stop being fat?

    Negative desires shouldn't be encouraged.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #61 - April 08, 2010, 11:38 AM

    LOL.  I never railed against men, nor did I say the problem was with male posters.  I just compared the atmosphere to a frat house.  




    I was referring to the general contentious nature of your first post in this thread. You seem overtly sensitive I find it quite unreasonable that you expect others to walk on egg shells around you, as I find it that you actually need to address your personal issues then to ask others to curb their behavior, which is not even deriding of women to being with.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #62 - April 08, 2010, 11:40 AM

    Yes. I always found no reason for using such words.

    The context is the issue here and not the word itself. There are good reasons for using words such as hoe, bitch, fag, etc - in the right context.

    Example:

    Homies Over Hoes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fzuXQF_wIU&feature=related

    Do you think the video above is sexist?


    As far as Iblis goes:

    "I've always wanted to be a gigolo. Fat chicks need love too, but they gotta pay."

    Frankly I see the above as pure self parody - on top of the Family Guy reference.

    1. He is stating that he always wanted to be a gigolo/promiscuous but repeatedly failed. Basically he is making fun of himself by ridiculing his (lack of) success with women.
    2. Afaic Iblis prefers fuller figured women anyway.

    It's true however that Iblis can be a bit tactless sometimes and he does like to provoke. But I don't think that he is a misogynist in a true sense of the word.

    Also I don't really see much sexism here - not the real kind of sexism anyway. That is not to say that there is absolutely none - some members have professed views regarding this issue in the past that was out of line.
    But as a general rule such members are in minority.

  • Re: Women
     Reply #63 - April 08, 2010, 12:04 PM

    Negative desires shouldn't be encouraged.

    Liking to be fat and not caring about being fat are negative desires that should be discouraged?

    Thought police much?

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #64 - April 08, 2010, 12:06 PM

    Wait... that shouldn't be encouraged.
    Still thought police ^_^

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #65 - April 08, 2010, 12:20 PM

    I see. Since you are apparently an expert on her difficulties, and no doubt have an appropriate degree in psychoanalysis, perhaps you could enlighten us about the relevant problems.


    I was analyzing specific parts of her post, especially her anecdotal comments I think it is quite reasonable to conclude from reading those specific parts of her post she indeed has some under lying issues which are causing her cognitive dissonance. It seems I am not the only person to bring that to light other users have also pointed out to that.    

    Quote
    For the record, I didn't regard her OP as at all misandrist and I'm a heterosexual male.


    Perhaps you may not have read her original post clearly. Permit me to highlight some specific points from Manat's post:
      
    Quote from: Manat
    I don't throw the word misogyny around lightly, but in my personal view, this place is swimming in it lately.


    Quote from: Manat
    b/c the response of misogynists is always the same - you're on the rag, you need a good fucking, you're a feminazi


    You would agree with me that, one would be hard pressed to find any of those remarks on this Website, I don't think anyone has made such comments not on the publicly viewable aspect of the Website.

    Quote from: Manat
    I dealt with this shit for years as a Muslim community worker, trying to improve our commnity.  The last place I expected it - or want to deal with  it - is in a place that is supposed to be a home for people who reject Islam's misogyny and want something better for themselves and society.


    I think Manat is finding it hard to come to terms with her past, and that is clouding her judgment. I could post more comments from Manat's post but I do not want to embarrass her further. I think in the future questions will be raised if she is fit to moderate the forum without holding a prejudice against some members of this Website.    

    Quote
    I'll also state that what prompted her to let off steam was that when she joined the staff yesterday we already had a discussion in progress about this issue.


    I have not seen this "discussion" so I can't comment.

    Quote
    It isn't just Manat who thinks the frat house atmosphere is over the top. It's the whole damned staff, including me.


    Majority of the members do not see negative atmosphere as is evident from the personal statements in this thread.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #66 - April 08, 2010, 12:30 PM

    I read her original post very clearly, thanks. The only part of it I might take issue with is the term "swimming in it". That is a slight exaggeration IMO. However there has still been too much gangsta crap for my liking. Going from the personal statements in this thread I'd say opinion is fairly evenly split.

    Regardless, Iblis' reaction was ridiculously over the top and abusive and basically just made Manat's point for her.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #67 - April 08, 2010, 12:31 PM

    That is fine. I am not too comfortable stating my life story or personal information about me. I feel it detracts from a persons posts, and also gives potential fuel to adversaries to attack you with. I just prefer to be in the background, like a gnome.

    I too think that it would be nice if you could open an intro thread and maybe state a few basic facts about yourself. Nothing too personal of course - general stuff only.
    Where you stand politically/philosophically/religiously, how did you find us etc.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #68 - April 08, 2010, 12:37 PM

    No no I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I *was* thinking about leaving about six weeks, two months ago because of the frat house atmosphere - and if I'm the only one who's going to say it on the board, so be it. It's my participation that I'm talking about primarily (therefore my own comfort level here is my concern), as well as some of the concerns I have about how this forum could be perceived by both those we want to support and those who would use our stuff against us (as happens all the time, of course). 

    Then instead, I decided to hang around a bit, and became a moderator when I was asked to.  Although I wasn't thinking about leaving, I'm not sure now.  I have the time for it - right now I do - but I'm wondering if I want to put up with it. 

    (sorry edited b/c i post as i read instead of reading entire threads and *then* posting). 

    I don't think we should have to change our attitudes just to please others. That is a dangerous way of thinking. And forget what people could use against us, who honestly cares about them? They're not worth worrying over. Not sure if you meant it that way, but that is how I personally feel about what others think.

    If there is a real concern then it usually gets dealt with. I agree that the atmosphere on CEMB had changed recently, and I can see the issues it's causing. I know Iblis has seriously pushing it these last few weeks.

    But if the general forum itself is becoming a big problem then it needs to be discussed, and I want to aim this bit specifically at the mods. Os, you've already stated twice in this thread that the mods have been discussing these issues. Can you not leave the rest of the forum out of it if you feel there is a problem with the general forum itself? I think this thread has been enough proof that we need to discuss this issue out in the open if we're going to get anywhere.

    I wouldn't even begin to equate the "men are dumb" type jokes and comments here with the sexism and the onslaught of "boys club" porn shit that has been going on because in a patriarchal culture - which our culture is - the two are nowhere near being the same.  It might be wrong - yes - but it's not the same thing at all.  It's like comparing the disdain of some gays for "breeders" with the homophobia of the general society. Both are wrong, but we know that they're not the same thing at all. 

    Also, if not clear - I didn't post this "as a mod." I posted it as a member. 

    Don't agree wit this. I wouldn't underestimate the damage that misandrism can do. We have enough males who suffer in silence from domestic violence, rape and god knows what else, and to say misadrism isn't the same thing is an insult to these men.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #69 - April 08, 2010, 12:41 PM

    Is "gangsta crap" synonymous with misogyny? I do agree with you that Iblis' response was immature, but then I also found Manat's post to be immature too. A personal rift between them is spilling over into the Website. As soon as I read the OP I clearly knew it was addressed at Iblis, and it could have been handled much more maturely by Manat raising the issue privately with some members she had issues with; her being a moderator I think it would be suffice to say that those members might have actually changed their behavior. Manat's original post is immature and quite callous, and Iblis' post is just a reaction to that, albeit an immature one.  
  • Re: Women
     Reply #70 - April 08, 2010, 12:46 PM

    In answer to your first question: basically, yes.

    This is a discussion board. I see no reason why Manat cannot use it to post her opinions like anyone else. She has already made it clear they were her own opinions and she was not speaking as a staff member per se. That's normal around here. All the staff do it. As soon as I read the OP I knew it was not just aimed at Iblis, but then maybe that's because I have more background knowledge than you do.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #71 - April 08, 2010, 01:00 PM

    In answer to your first question: basically, yes.

    Care to point out the supposed misogyny in these two videos?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0_HYuR_fk&feature=fvw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2EGOB9-lc
  • Re: Women
     Reply #72 - April 08, 2010, 01:03 PM

    I too think that it would be nice if you could open an intro thread and maybe state a few basic facts about yourself. Nothing too personal of course - general stuff only.
    Where you stand politically/philosophically/religiously, how did you find us etc.



    I will address by the end of today. 
  • Re: Women
     Reply #73 - April 08, 2010, 01:10 PM

    Kenan, I'm sure I could cherrypick videos to make any point.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #74 - April 08, 2010, 01:12 PM

    My point exactly.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #75 - April 08, 2010, 01:18 PM

    Well since I never mentioned videos I'm not sure how it is relevant.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #76 - April 08, 2010, 01:32 PM

    In answer to your first question: basically, yes.


    Are you saying this to give credence to your response or, that you actually believe it? conscious hip-hop/gangsta culture has been at the forefront of countering the socially violate lyrics of mainstream entertainment the MTV version of gangsterism is quite far from the underground hip-hop entrainment, and the MTV version of hip-hop is often misconstrued as being sexist and homophobic in nature.        

    Quote
    This is a discussion board. I see no reason why Manat cannot use it to post her opinions like anyone else.


    Of course she can I do not dispute that. Borderline trolling/flame is discouraged on most forums.    

    Quote
    She has already made it clear they were her own opinions and she was not speaking as a staff member per se. That's normal around here. All the staff do it. As soon as I read the OP I knew it was not just aimed at Iblis, but then maybe that's because I have more background knowledge than you do.


    Indeed I can only comment on what I have seen on the forum if you have other information which we are not aware of then it would be prudent for you to present it. otherwise saying someone should in essence shut up because they are unaware of all the facts is rather rude.    
  • Re: Women
     Reply #77 - April 08, 2010, 01:38 PM

    Borderline trolling/flame is discouraged on most forums.

    I agree. It is discouraged here too. Please stop it. We have had more than enough of it this week and are rather bored with it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #78 - April 08, 2010, 01:40 PM

    Well since I never mentioned videos I'm not sure how it is relevant.

    You mentioned "gangsta crap". N.W.A are considered to be the founders of the whole gangsta subculture in hip-hop and generally speaking.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #79 - April 08, 2010, 01:41 PM

    I agree. It is discouraged here too. Please stop it. We have had more than enough of it this week and are rather bored with it.


    I guess I haven't been initiated into your little clique yet!
  • Re: Women
     Reply #80 - April 08, 2010, 01:42 PM

    I'll watch the videos tomorrow and give you my opinion.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #81 - April 08, 2010, 01:48 PM

    Osmanosmanthus, please watch this short documentary:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDibruwUSd4 
  • Re: Women
     Reply #82 - April 08, 2010, 01:55 PM

    I guess I haven't been initiated into your little clique yet!

    It's like this: we've had a week full of trolls. You arrive out of nowhere with a nick that implies you have The TruthTM and immediately start pretending to be a psychoanalyst for someone you don't even know. So, under the circumstances, how would it look to you if you were in my shoes?

     

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #83 - April 08, 2010, 02:16 PM

    I'll watch the videos tomorrow and give you my opinion.

    No worries. I didn't mean to pester you.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #84 - April 08, 2010, 02:22 PM

    Haven't watched the pair you posted but that first animated one I can give an opinion on. It's an obvious parody of "gangsta crap". So the misogyny is there but is being sent up.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #85 - April 08, 2010, 02:31 PM

    It's from a brilliant show called "The Boondocks" which is a social satire of American culture and race relations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGvaiazMXtI

  • Re: Women
     Reply #86 - April 08, 2010, 02:56 PM

    It's like this: we've had a week full of trolls. You arrive out of nowhere with a nick that implies you have The TruthTM and immediately start pretending to be a psychoanalyst for someone you don't even know. So, under the circumstances, how would it look to you if you were in my shoes?


    I do understand the situation I have been reading this website almost since it's inception so I do apologize if I come across a little less formal then most new members. I just find it a little strange that you are speaking for Manat, and I think I and a few other members have made our position on the issue clear. I find that some of the comments which are in-disagreement for example on my views come across as overly defensive.

    As regards to my username I picked it for very specific reasons, which I will express later in my introduction.    
  • Re: Women
     Reply #87 - April 08, 2010, 02:59 PM

    Quote
    As regards to my username I picked it for very specific reasons, which I will express later in my introduction.     

     


    I would suggest you make your introduction and express your specific reasons first, before you continue with your psychoanalysis and pontification.  We've had more than enough of trolls and sock puppets this week - at the moment we're still giving you the benefit of the doubt, (just about), but that moment won't last much longer.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #88 - April 08, 2010, 03:07 PM

    I do understand the situation I have been reading this website almost since it's inception so I do apologize if I come across a little less formal then most new members. I just find it a little strange that you are speaking for Manat

    She has been offline. I have been responding to other people's posts. No big deal.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #89 - April 08, 2010, 03:57 PM

    I would suggest you make your introduction and express your specific reasons first, before you continue with your psychoanalysis and pontification.  We've had more than enough of trolls and sock puppets this week - at the moment we're still giving you the benefit of the doubt, (just about), but that moment won't last much longer.


    Sure: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=9667.msg248157#msg248157
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