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Theme Changer

 Topic: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)

 (Read 84855 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 10 11 1213 14 ... 19 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #330 - March 15, 2011, 08:56 PM

    Not so much as a cow worshiper, more like respectful towards the animal kingdom. But you are free to call me a cow worshiper, I take this as a compliment. I am a lapsed vegetarian.

    As a matter of fact, there is no prohibition against eating meat in the Vedas, the original Hindu scriptures. There are several reasons why majority of cow worshipers became vegetarians. Hindus are not vegans. Cow's milk is sacred.

    (1) The influence of Jainism, an ascetic religion established by Mahavir about 2500 years ago. Jains are strictly non-violent and they are commanded not to engage in any action which might cause any sort of violence to any living creature.

    (2) The cult of Krishna, the cow herd, one of the Incarnations of Vishnu, the Lord of sustenance, one of the Trinity.

    (3) Economic reason: The cow became the backbone of the economy in the rural India for last 2000 years, due to geographic reasons. Cow provided milk, the offspring of the cow, the bull was used for tilling the land and as means of transport. This enabled the farmers to take their produce to the markets etc. The cow dung was used as fuel for cooking. Also the cow dung was used as reinforcement to mix with mud to build huts.

    (4) It takes almost 20 times more resources to provide the same amount of animal protein as vegetable protein.

    Fascinating thoughts. Does the reverence for animals extend beyond the cow or is it sui generis?  I know that Buddhism takes a dim view of visiting harm on sentient creatures, but I thought Hindus had a fetish about cattle only. My grasp of comparative religion as you can see would never get me laid.

    I understand that you are a Hindu and a cow worshipper like no other.  I mean that in the most positive sense of course. I would never traffic in blasphemy. I respect the high gods with all my heart and all my strength and all my mind.  Tell me a little about your creed. Tell me something exotic, something interesting about those mysterious deities with the chest hair. To your mind should I convert to the Hindu faith?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #331 - March 15, 2011, 10:03 PM

    Game, set, match MAB I think.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #332 - March 15, 2011, 10:23 PM

    Don't speak ill of my transvestite lover Bard. If you wanna watch while I mount him and discharge myself manfully that is fine. Grab the camera and film it, but don't laugh at the way he shivers when I put my thing on him.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #333 - March 15, 2011, 11:04 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKTsWjbjQ8E

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #334 - March 16, 2011, 01:22 AM

    Fascinating thoughts. Does the reverence for animals extend beyond the cow or is it sui generis?  I know that Buddhism takes a dim view of visiting harm on sentient creatures, but I thought Hindus had a fetish about cattle only. My grasp of comparative religion as you can see would never get me laid.


    There is place for every animal in Hinduism, even rats and snakes. Also there is contradiction, every sentient being has negative as well positive aspects, including humans. In that sense humans are not superior to animals. But at the same time, humans have ability to distinguish right from wrong which makes them different, but not necessarily superior.

    In Hinduism, what you believe is secondary to how you act. This is the biggest difference between Hinduism (as a matter of fact all Eastern religions) and the Abrahamaic faiths. In Judaism, Christianity and Islam, one must believe. Jews must believe in the covenant with God, Christian must believe that Jesus Christ is the Saviour and Muslims must believe that Muhammad is Last Prophet.

    What I am trying to say that a human being is superior to a believer. Humanity is more important than belief. It is better to be a doubting human being than a steadfast believer.

    Quote
    I understand that you are a Hindu and a cow worshipper like no other.  I mean that in the most positive sense of course. I would never traffic in blasphemy. I respect the high gods with all my heart and all my strength and all my mind.  Tell me a little about your creed. Tell me something exotic, something interesting about those mysterious deities with the chest hair. To your mind should I convert to the Hindu faith?

    I never for a minute thought that you were being blasphemous, but you have the right. Blasphemy is necessary evil. A faith which does not tolerate blasphemy will eventually die. One man's belief is another man's blasphemy and vice versa.

    Hinduism is an evolving creed. It changes, from time to time and place to place.

    God in Hinduism manifest Himself in many different ways. God is Trinity. Brahma is the Creator, Vishnu is the Sustainer and Shiva is the Destroyer. Brahma's Consort Sarswati is the Goddess of arts, the creation. Vishnus's Consort is Lakshmi, the Goddess of Wealth, the sustenance. Shiva's Consort is Shakti, the Goddess of Protection, the power.

    Should you convert to Hinduism? Only you can answer that question. To be human is more important than being a Hindu. Will being a Hindu reinforce your humanity?

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #335 - March 16, 2011, 02:01 AM

    It's a trap MAB. Don't do it.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #336 - March 16, 2011, 02:17 AM

    @Ram

    That was beautiful. How can I thank you for expanding the frontiers of my consciousness? Come hither my sugarplum, I wanna put my lips on you. I've always maintained that a multiplicity of gods affords a multiplicty of ways to light one's spiritual candle. The trouble with the towelheads is that they've regimented  spiritual life to the point of heresy hunts. Dissent from orthodoxy and you are run out of town as the devil's gay lover. But out where the tropical fields grow tall, there's no such thing as heresy owing to the multitude of gods.

    Atheism, to an extent, is a Western construct because not everyone in Eastern mysticism genuflects to the same deity. With a pantheon of gods comes a degree of tolerance that cannot take root in the hegemonic doctrine of One True God. In its place one gets a thousand Divines with a thousand dangling sixth fingers and their subordinate saints and spirits and demigods and enchanting old men trying to steal a meal. No way in such a promiscious theological atmosphere for a Torquemada to set up shop. Impossible. Gotta learn to be more spiritually promiscious. Gotta have religious porn. And about that the East has nothing to teach the West.

    A stray question: What do the cow worshippers believe about post-mortem destiny?

    Postscript: I lifted this reply from another post I made elsewhere
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #337 - March 16, 2011, 02:33 AM

    It's a trap MAB. Don't do it.

    Yes Ishina, it is more like a maze, but only if you walk into it blindly. Maze is part of life. We are all trapped in it. But there is a way out, there are many paths out of it. You will find your way, everybody will, do not despair. Your path is unique, it is yours alone. You will take your own time, but you will arrive at your destination.

    You are your own messenger, you are that, the almighty. You know the way. We all do.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #338 - March 16, 2011, 02:38 AM

    What are you talking about?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #339 - March 16, 2011, 09:47 AM

    Quote
    Setting aside the syntactical atrocity you've created here, the meat industry is no less a social construct than slavery. Animals are herded into cages in which they don’t belong from the cradle to the grave. It’s constructed for the social gain of their exploiters. There’s nothing natural about their captivity.

    Going further, if the killing of one species by another is justified on evolutionary grounds so can the killing of one race by another. Human beings have evolved differently and have always killed each other. Aggression against outsiders is perfectly natural. All of which comes back to the fallacy which has been debunked a thousand times: Appeal to nature.


    Straw man, oh straw man, what would MAB do without you....  I was talking of MEAT EATING as a evolutionary legacy not about meat factories.. I said earlier I do not consume meat from meat factories....

    Yet again the racial argument, a straw man with emotional appeal... We kill other species for food, not because we hate the way they look.. Tell me one racist that killed "members" of another "race" in order to feed on their dead bodies, i shall kiss your ass for providing such a case...

    Quote
    The transatlantic slave trade was the process by which one race conquered and enslaved another. Africans may have sold off other Africans to make a buck just as Muslim women are complicit in the subjection of other women by men but it does not alter the fact that racial difference was the driving reason that whites made slaves of blacks because they felt their difference robbed them of their natural rights. The same justification holds for speciesism. And you miss the wider point. Racism is the notion that a man of a different colour does not have the same rights owing to his difference. Ditto Speciesm. To proceed on the grounds of biological difference is to accept the justification for all forms of bigotry.


    Ah ok, i see, now we shall ignore all other forms slavery that existed and focus on the Transatlantic slave trade... Do you want to tell me that a "race war" was the reason for it?? That it was the wish of the white man to show dominance over the black man that fueled slavery? No my dear friend there was a mixture of components and racism was introduced later... 

    The main factor that pushed slavery was the economic factor, rich folks with a lot of land needing cheap labor.. The Africans happened to be naturally well built and capable to endure hardships, which the native Americans could not + that they were already exterminated more or less. The Racial component comes later, when it was used as an argument to JUSTIFY slavery to a public that was uncomfortable with slavery as a practice which was long abolished inside Europe... But race being an argument for slavery, does not mean that it was the main reason for slavery.. the main reason was CASH.

    Anyway, I do not accept such a term as speciesism as I do not eat cows because of hate or any supremacy ideals that i uphold. But i eat them because they are FOOD for me... I feel the same way for Bananas and Grain which are also living things.

    You have no moral right to come here and preach about specieism while you live in a concrete environment that used to be the home of many species, enjoy electronic devices built by modern slave labour in Asia, eat cheap bananas that were produced by modern slave labour at the cost of destroying rainforests etc etc... This is just hypocrisy..   

    Quote
    I did not say that cannabilism was nutritious. Got that? Mashallah! I said that morally speaking there is no difference between eating a different species or a different race. If you can tell me the difference in moral terms between the one or the other I'm all ears. The only argument against exploiting another race is because their difference does not matter. Only their sentience.


    The morals behind the story of not eating fellow humans come from evolutionary process as many of our morals come from, like not raping a 2 year old... I stated earlier why cannibalism is practically a dead end that wipes out those that wish to engage in it. 

    In the other hand eating FOODS available to you in order to survive and pass on your genes and secure that your kids survive too is totally morally acceptable.

    You never explained how do you expect people from non-agrarian lands to survive if meat eating was abolished one day.. You and other fellow veggies totally are ignoring the fact that there are regions in the world that do not support an all vegetarian diet , and you should know that the best since most of east Turkey is dry and full of mountains and hills that do not support agriculture but rather sheep and goat herding...

    Quote
    I like raping young boys because it feels so good and because I CAN. Would you care to swallow my nine inch meat?


    Try raping my kids and i will impale you and stick you in my front yard and everyone will give me an applause for impaling a pedophile...  Do you get the difference between pedophilia and meat eating now?

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #340 - March 17, 2011, 06:42 AM

    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi
    Yet again the racial argument, a straw man with emotional appeal...Anyway, I do not accept such a term as speciesism as I do not eat cows because of hate or any supremacy ideals that i uphold. But i eat them because they are FOOD for me... I feel the same way for Bananas and Grain which are also living things.


    You were attempting to MORALLY justify eating meat on the grounds that it was also "beneficial" for the animals being eaten in "macrobiological" terms.

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #341 - March 18, 2011, 11:19 PM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #342 - March 19, 2011, 02:34 AM

    What are you talking about?


    Tat tvam asi.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #343 - March 19, 2011, 03:18 AM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #344 - March 19, 2011, 07:11 AM


    MaB

    Do you wear leather shoes ?

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #345 - March 19, 2011, 01:19 PM

    Tat tvam asi.

    What are you talking about?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #346 - March 19, 2011, 02:28 PM

    Tat tvam asi.


    Who says that it is what that fool is saying?

    Fake friends flatter you. Their compliments are made up. Nasty enemies criticize you harshly. They pick on you unnecessarily. Neither of them help you improve yourself. The best critic is honest and knows you exactly and the best person you can choose to follow is someone closest to you.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #347 - March 19, 2011, 02:30 PM

    Zebedee: Shram kuris tutoo paeay si

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #348 - March 19, 2011, 04:33 PM

    I said that morally speaking there is no difference between eating a different species or a different race. If you can tell me the difference in moral terms between the one or the other I'm all ears.

    Tell me if I’m right here:

    1. When a man kills another man, it is murder.
    2. Murder is a crime that deserves the death penalty.
    3. Therefore, when a man kills another man, he deserves the death penalty.

    1. There is no discernable difference between killing a man and killing a pig.
    2. When a man kills another man, it is murder.
    3. Therefore, when a man kills a pig, it is murder.
    4. Murder is a crime that deserves the death penalty.
    5. Therefore, when a man kills a pig, he deserve the death penalty.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #349 - March 19, 2011, 04:38 PM

    @Maxwell

    Because he said:

    Quote
    you are that


    Which is the meaning of the aforementioned phrase.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #350 - March 19, 2011, 04:39 PM

    @Muddy

    Zebedee: Shram kuris tutoo paeay si


    Interesting. More Sanskrit? What does it mean?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #351 - March 19, 2011, 04:42 PM

    @MAB

    I read your post, and I both agree and disagree with its content. I gotta dash right about now, but when I get back, rest sured, I'll show you something special.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #352 - March 19, 2011, 05:08 PM

    @Muddy

    Interesting. More Sanskrit? What does it mean?

    More of a Gibberish.. Tongue

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #353 - March 19, 2011, 07:26 PM

    There is nothing natural about our meat diet. Genuine carnivores eat their meat raw. Raw meat will possibly kill a man because of the bacteria which thrive on it. The type of meat that you do eat is a highly manipulated form that is fourty miles removed from what is natural.

    Ever had carpaccio, steak tartare, rare or medium rare steak, beef tataki, sashimi or any other type of sushi with raw fish or seared beef? Ever had raw scallops? Shit man, apparently I am a zombie. Please inform my wife asap.

    Absolutely fresh meat does not contain a significant amount of bacteria - by that I mean amount that would be  pathological to humans. If there is a significant amount of bacteria in fresh raw meat that aren't a result of external factors (process of butchering an animal with infected knife etc) that points to a pathological condition in that particular animal.


    Seriously though the reason why we cook/prepare meat is simple:
    1. preservation
    2. cooking kills off parasites
    3. cooked meat is easier to digest

    Btw I am sure that you are aware that there is a reason why lots of vegetables must be cooked as well in order to be fit for human consumption - "a highly manipulated form that is fourty miles removed from what is natural"...

    On top of that human stomach contain HCl and is strongly acidic which kills or inhibits bacteria and provides the acidic pH for the proteases to work (yep, we are talking protein-digesting enzymes such as pepsin here).
    Would you believe it that stomachs of herbivores contain both native bacteria and protozoa which help in digestion of vegetable food. Guess what, the function of low ph in human stomach is to (hopefully) kill off bacteria and such which is similar to what happens in stomach of a carnivorous animal even thought their ph does not fluctuate as much as ours does when they consume food. Hence you shouldn't be able to find neither bacteria nor protozoa in human stomach under non pathological conditions.

    Human pancreas secretes a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

    While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores do, nor do we digest cellulose which would be vital if our digestive system is to be similar to that of herbivores.

    Imo humans digestive system is neither completely carnivorous nor herbivorous per se but has evolved to be able to cope with wide variety of diets.



  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #354 - March 19, 2011, 07:30 PM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #355 - March 19, 2011, 07:55 PM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #356 - March 19, 2011, 08:00 PM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #357 - March 19, 2011, 08:03 PM

    All of which is immaterial. If you've been following this debate you will have caught why the appeal to nature is false.

    True. I do understand that. Why did you use it then?


    But the stuff below is still bull ...

    Rare steaks are habitually cooked at moderate temperatures to kill bacteria. What I had in mind specifically was meat like chicken, lamb, turkey, duck, goose and the like which cannot be consumed without cooking. Eat them raw and you will catch food poisoning.


    Rare steaks are briefly seared on the outside and any remaining bacteria on the inside of the steak would remain intact.

    As I said before there are no native bacteria in fresh meat hence one cannot get food poisoning from it. Such meat (including chicken, lamb, turkey, duck, goose and the like) absolutely can be consumed without cooking provided it has been examined by a veterinary to rule out parasites.

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #358 - March 19, 2011, 08:16 PM

    .
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #359 - March 19, 2011, 08:33 PM

    The question is which part of "native bacteria" and "non-pathological condition" as stated in my previous posts you don't understand exactly?

    You do realize that salmonella causes salmonellosis (an infection) which is a pathological condition for poultry even though infected animals can be asymptotic?

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