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 Topic: Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss

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  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #60 - March 10, 2013, 12:37 AM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on March 10, 2013, 12:27 AM
    What frustrates me about IERA is that they go around only debating famous people who don't know much about their religion and then deny to debate people who do know alot about their religion such as TheRationalizer.

    They are deceptive, sly, publicity hungry conmen.


    Again this is krauss fault. Every one of tortoises point is easily refuted. Embryology? Refuted. Quran miracle? Refuted. Anything? Refuted. One just has to be antiquated with the material. And it's not that hard to become so... I'm sure that each point made by hammy could be seen coming a mile away. I especially don't like the prospects that hammy might have spouted his 'linguistic' and 'embryology' garbage without a suitable smack down by Krauss. That's just fucking unacceptable

    So does anyone know if krauss put up a fight at all?
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #61 - March 10, 2013, 12:38 AM
    The problem is Hamza's strategy of making his arguments so long, rambling, and nonsensical, that his opponents often won't bother paying much attention to them. This is especially the case for an American like Krauss, who may not have even heard of him before.
    There are so many problems with everything Hamza says, and so many places for him to hide, you actually have to do a lot of work in order to rebut it all.

    If this is an intentional tactic of Hamza's, then I would have to admit that he isn't as stupid as I thought. However, I very much doubt it.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #62 - March 10, 2013, 12:41 AM
    Looks like this served no purpose but for Hamza to get more recognition. Now he can say he's shared a platform with Professor Lawrence. I can't believe a nobody like him got this opportunity. Next time I would say we should discourage anyone from engaging Hamza.

    Browsing the twitter tag I saw tweets like:

    -"Prof Lawrence says evolution is highly likely - Dear Professor Lawrence I have not seen any of the intermediary stages of evolution."

    -"OMG Prof Lawrence says he sees nothing wrong with incest"

    It was mainly a show for ignorant Muslims. Nothing more.
    Join us on chat. Click here.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #63 - March 10, 2013, 12:53 AM
    Fuck Hamza and his deceitful tactics. Today he tells me that the Quran is not the source of future accuracies after I ask him about Islam's equivalent of the LHC, yet I still receive a booklet about science and the Quran on the way out? Fucking two faced little shit.
    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #64 - March 10, 2013, 01:55 AM
    Krauss is a busy guy, I think he musta not put in the hours to reasearch hamzas bullshit

    i think krauss's intentions for this debate may have something to do with garnering some publicity for he's new movie out soon that he's executively produced and co-starring in with Dawkins

    as for winning, to win Hamza would have to prove the existence of not only of a deity, but that deity being allah and also prove that all the other thousands of deities don't exist. Did he do that?
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #65 - March 10, 2013, 02:19 AM
    Krauss  just tweeted
    ‏@LKrauss1
    Almost walked out of debate as it ended up segregated + saw 3 kids being ejected for sitting in wrong place. I packed up and they caved in.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #66 - March 10, 2013, 02:28 AM
    Quote
    as for winning, to win Hamza would have to prove the existence of not only of a deity, but that deity being allah and also prove that all the other thousands of deities don't exist. Did he do that?


    It's not at all necessary to "prove" anything to win a debate. All that matters is making a more convincing case than your opponent. If you can do that, then for all intents and purposes you won the debate. When assessing these debates, it's helpful to forget who you think is right and just to imagine how a completely neutral, uncommitted spectator would feel watching it. Whose presentation would move him/her more?
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #67 - March 10, 2013, 05:38 AM
    Considering I sent Krauss the links to wikiislam and videos of the magic sandwich show.  I would have hoped he would pay attention.  Well I suppose we will have to see when it comes out.

    Wait the religion where their leader married a 9 year old care complaining about incest?   bahahahahaha what about Adam and Eves kids? I mean come on!  I cant debate worth a damn and I just came up with two smack downs.

    Oh my Christopher Hitchens its a fihrrrrrrrrrrrr
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #68 - March 10, 2013, 06:43 AM
    ^Tell me about it. Those two points (Mo's obvious sexual depravity; plus him going to bed with his adopted son's wife, allowing his men to RAPE female captives of war, and a myriad of other abuses Smiley) came to mind.

    I don't see why it's so HARD TO LEARN A THING OR TWO ABOUT ISLAM BEFORE GOING INTO A DEBATE. You're not debating a Buddhist, nor a Christian - Islam has that extra paranoid dimension, that irritating "we invented everything / scientific miracles" complex. I mean, c'mon. I'm so sick of slippery Hamza deploying his metaphysical BS on unprepared intellectuals - someone pls call him out on it!

    His debate against Pervez Hoodbhoy was such a catastrophe (on H's part) simply because he couldn't play the BS game.

    I really think CEMB needs to send in the heavy artillery. Pls, Hamza, debate someone who knows a thing or two about Islam.

    All the scientific knowledge in the world won't help you against Hamza; he's a pseudo-scientist. Unless you can call him out on his buzz-word BS (master of stringing meaningless gibberish together) you might as well save yourself the effort - DON'T FEED THE TROLL 
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #69 - March 10, 2013, 08:08 AM
    I don't understand why people don't actually learn the ideology they debate against. For example, why does Dawkins even criticize Islam without having even read the Qur'aan? I know the main tenets of Islam seem like bullshit anyways, but does that really sound like academic integrity to you?

  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #70 - March 10, 2013, 08:09 AM
    redriding, I just read your post. Glad to know other people think the same Smiley
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #71 - March 10, 2013, 08:38 AM
    it isnt really Islam that they need to know. It is Islamic apologetics. All this 'embryology' bullshit has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. It is all 'innovation'.

    As for incest, they were sitting in the very lecture theatre where geneticist Steve Jones often explains why cousin marriages amongst Pakistanis in Bradford are causing so many inbreeding problems.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392217/Muslim-outrage-professor-Steve-Jones-warns-inbreeding-risks.html

    Incest is objectively right.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #72 - March 10, 2013, 11:55 AM
    True, though I think one needs to first understand the beast (Islam) before one can properly grasp slippery apologetic nonsense (ie I don't think one can jump straight into apologetics; it's like trying to run before you can walk). But definitely agree with your angle. 

    eg You often hear Muslims say "there is no compulsion in religion", & they use this to lull the unprepared Westerner into a false sense of security. BUT if you're armed with the (oh so simple) knowledge that the death penalty exists for apostasy in ALL four schools of Sunni jurisprudence, then this goes a long way in terms of disarming the apologist (they'll still throw out the old "there's no caliphate, so the punishment doesn't apply" or "apostasy is equivalent to treason; the US executes traitors, so what''s the big deal blah blah" - but they're essentially clutching at straws here & easy points aren't up for grabs).

    AN IMPORTANT FACT: Muslims wax lyrical about the "miracles" in the Quran (eg embryology). Fact: almost every Muslim scientist held to the false geocentric cosmology until after the European Renaissance. They tried & tried to innovate with the Ptolemaic model - tried their little hearts out - but they just couldn't (as a community) make the crucial paradigm shift - even after 500 years of wrestling with mathematical inconsistencies. You'd think the "miraculous" Quran would at least point them in the right direction, but alas it didn't. Why? Clearly the Quran was a product of its time, neither scientifically "miraculous" nor revolutionary.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #73 - March 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
    trollolololol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNm77GS7b4
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #74 - March 10, 2013, 12:38 PM
    Clearly this "dawah man" fell out of the 'stupid tree' & hit every branch on the way down. You can't fix stupid.

    we're talking about a man who came up with the (lame) slogan "BANG BANG IT'S DAWAH TIME!"
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #75 - March 10, 2013, 01:44 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
    trollolololol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNm77GS7b4


    He seems high in the beginning....

    Quote
    Clearly this "dawah man" fell out of the 'stupid tree' & hit every branch on the way down. You can't fix stupid.

     Cheesy Cheesy Tongue
    Quote from: ZooBear 

    • Surah Al-Fil: In an epic game of Angry Birds, Allah uses birds (that drop pebbles) to destroy an army riding elephants whose intentions were to destroy the Kaaba. No one has beaten the high score.

  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #76 - March 10, 2013, 02:02 PM
    Just when I thought it wasn't possible to display more stupidity than Hamza...
    Join us on chat. Click here.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #77 - March 10, 2013, 02:07 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 10, 2013, 08:38 AM
    it isnt really Islam that they need to know. It is Islamic apologetics. All this 'embryology' bullshit has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. It is all 'innovation'.

    As for incest, they were sitting in the very lecture theatre where geneticist Steve Jones often explains why cousin marriages amongst Pakistanis in Bradford are causing so many inbreeding problems.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392217/Muslim-outrage-professor-Steve-Jones-warns-inbreeding-risks.html

    Incest is objectively right.

     

    You mean incest is objectively wrong
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #78 - March 10, 2013, 02:09 PM
    not according to Islam.
    They were debating objective islamic morality vs subjective atheist morality.
    Pointing out that Krauss will not say incest is objectively wrong, does you no favours when your own religion says that its objectively right.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #79 - March 10, 2013, 02:11 PM
    Pakistanis seem to have no problem with incest.


    Why can't they see that marrying your cousin is almost the exact same thing as marrying your sibling or parent.

    The birth defects validate this statement.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #80 - March 10, 2013, 02:11 PM
    It's hilarious that Muslims (and Christians) try to play "GOTCHA!" games over incest when Islam and Christianity both include incest in their formative mythology. Grin
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #81 - March 10, 2013, 02:11 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 10, 2013, 02:09 PM
    not according to Islam.
    They were debating objective islamic morality vs subjective atheist morality.
    Pointing out that Krauss will not say incest is objectively wrong, does you no favours when your own religion says that its objectively right.

     

    Oh my bad i thought you meant it's objectively wrong from a scientific point of view
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #82 - March 10, 2013, 02:12 PM
    Quote from: allat on March 10, 2013, 02:11 PM
    It's hilarious that Muslims (and Christians) try to play "GOTCHA!" games over incest when Islam and Christianity both include incest in their formative mythology. Grin


    But the funny thing is with hamza you don't even need to go to the formative mythologies because the muslim community STILL practices incest

    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on March 10, 2013, 02:11 PM
    Pakistanis seem to have no problem with incest.


    Why can't they see that marrying your cousin is almost the exact same thing as marrying your sibling or parent.

    The birth defects validate this statement.



     
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #83 - March 10, 2013, 03:15 PM
    i saw this comment on Hamhead's facebook page

    Quote
    No wonder William Lane craig is dodging him, lol. -_*


    That would actually be pretty funny to see William Lane Craig debate Hamza Tzorzis.
    How the fuck does Tzortzis expect to defeat the guy who he steals all his arguments from?

    Imagine the volume of bullshit. Tzortzis + WLC combined. It blows my mind
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #84 - March 10, 2013, 03:35 PM
    I actually really want to see that debate.

    I think Craig's arguments are flawed but I have to give him credit for being a legit academic philosopher.


    How is Hamza gonna debate philosophical arguments with a guy who has a PHD in philosophy and popularized the very argument he uses.
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #85 - March 10, 2013, 05:23 PM
    So the debate is all done, and I hear that Hamza made a fool out of himself once again.

    The debate was supposedly really biased towards Islamic arguments, most notably the issue of gender segregation and that women were told to sit behind and the men to be sat forward.

    3 people from the audience didn't follow that rule and the IERA tried to kick them out.

    But Professor Krauss, being the cool badass he is, protested and said if people weren't allowed to sit freely together then he'd walk away from the debate, plain and simple. In the end they allowed it and the debate then continued.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151324574843231

    Here's a link to a short video one of the people from the audience captured, showing Lawrence Krauss objecting to gender segregation and walking away from the debate.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #86 - March 10, 2013, 07:17 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
    trollolololol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNm77GS7b4


    Really is cringe worthy, It is commendable that professer krauss kept his cool with that idiot. When he kept interrupting I was hoping lawrence would nut him lol.

    I'm hearing that incest was the issue that threw the debate in hamza's favour. I need to see an uneditted version to draw any conclusions. Hopefully hamza puts up the full version.

    I can't see how you can lose a debate over the morality of incest. Can easily bring up stories of adam and eve and first cousin marriages. For any who were at the debate what did hamza argue about incest.
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #87 - March 10, 2013, 07:38 PM
    That's kind of the thing. If incest was actually such a big point of contention, the easiest thing in the world would have been to bring up adam and eve. The end.

    If Krauss didn't pull out that fast ball it's a big fail on his part and shows he didn't really know the opposition at all
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #88 - March 10, 2013, 07:45 PM
    NO you guys!! Allah subhaanahu wa ta'ala already thought about that problem and, through his infinite wisdom, came up with a solution. The sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were born in sets of twins. The twins could not marry each other, they could only marry from the other sets of twins. That makes it not incest. Duh!! Silly Murtads
  • Islam or Atheism March 9th Hamza "Schmuck" Tzortis vs Lawrence "The Man" Krauss
     Reply #89 - March 10, 2013, 07:48 PM
    I've got the feeling that may have been the case. I don't think he really needed to do that much research to make the debate interesting. Every hamza debate I have seen, he uses the argument from ignorance. He probably picked one or two areas which lawrence may have diffuiculty answering and then concluded that 'see he can't answer, therefore god did it, takbeer'

    LOL @HM I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to argue with that reasoning.
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