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 Topic: Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook

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  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #270 - September 22, 2013, 03:14 AM

    Quote
    Most religions make the same claims. Nothing special to me that sets Christianity apart from any other


    Nope most religions do not make the same claims. Hinduism promotes more then one god and reincarnation. Buddhism promotes enlightenment. Christianity promotes salvation.

    Quote
    The Law of Moses ring a bell, the 10 commandments, Divine law?


    Christians keep the Ten commandments as a reminder of our sinful nature.

    Quote
    Thou shalt not kill. If you look into the root words used in Hebrew text there is justified killing within the context of the word. One is allowed to kill people that turn to idolatry, blasphemy while also allowing soldier to commit murder in times of war. Not combat but killing of prisoners and family members of captives aka what we consider war crimes now.  


    As far as I know that killing for idolatry rule was only meant to regulate Israeli behavior. To be honest I don't know if that rule was ever enforced or not. I don't about killing for blasphemy. As for killing during times of war it was meant to send a message to Israel's enemies to don't fuck with the Jews. Yes they would of been taken to the Hague.

    I believe thou shalt not kill refers to murder.

    Quote
    Same God is it not?


    Yes it is the same God.

    Quote
    That line of though has worked out so well in the modern world hasnt it.... What if people refuse to change their ways? Does the freedom of a few outweigh any impact they may have on the majority by their choices. At times government have to step in despite what people have chosen to do. Civil Rights for example.


    I wasn't talking about people changing their ways. The majority of high birthrates take place in third world countries. In these countries most of the women are uneducated. If we educate the women then the birthrate will slow down. Also we have the technology to produce more food for the population. I am not for government taking control over people's bodies. If that happens then human rights violations will happen. The civil rights is not a good comparison because that is an example of the government protecting people rights not taking them away. I am in no way in favor of government getting into population control. China is a good example of this. They force women to have abortions against their will. Also China's one child policy has created an imbalance between the genders as there are now more males then females. It is also creating other problems such as who is gonna take care of the elderly.

    Quote
    To bad it is already happening in many nations across the planet. Especially nations that suffer from famine, something the West hasn't faced in decades.


    I already addressed your statement in my last paragraph. The overpopulation myth has been addressed but we do not hear about it in the mainstream media.

    Quote
    Prove? All I have really done is lay out arguments that show some of the views you hold regarding key concepts factually are in error, such as the bloodlines. As I first stated with my bloodline argument is that you accept certain claims based on bloodlines when it supports a view you hold but ignore the same bloodline when it is about Adam & Eve along with their link to other figures in the Bible


    Ok
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #271 - September 22, 2013, 05:52 AM

    Quote
    Nope most religions do not make the same claims. Hinduism promotes more then one god and reincarnation. Buddhism promotes enlightenment. Christianity promotes salvation.


    Same oil. Different snake.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #272 - September 22, 2013, 06:13 AM

    Nope most religions do not make the same claims. Hinduism promotes more then one god....

    So does Christianity. dance

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #273 - September 22, 2013, 10:17 AM

    Nope most religions do not make the same claims. Hinduism promotes more then one god and reincarnation. Buddhism promotes enlightenment. Christianity promotes salvation.

    Christians keep the Ten commandments as a reminder of our sinful nature.


    I think someone is trying to do a Prince.  Wink

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #274 - September 22, 2013, 01:44 PM


    Christians keep the Ten commandments as a reminder of our sinful nature.



    You asked for archaic morales and laws in the OT. Whether you follow these laws is irrelevant to the question asked. You asked for examples, I provided them.


    Nope most religions do not make the same claims. Hinduism promotes more then one god and reincarnation. Buddhism promotes enlightenment. Christianity promotes salvation.



    Hinduism's Brahman is a singular entity with many different forms or avatars. All these forms, depending on sect, may or may not be worshipped directly. However all these "Gods" are still part of a singular Godhead. Hinduism is about as polytheist as Christianity is. Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Just as with Christianity the Godhead takes on different avatars and forms but is still part of one supreme being. All figures are part of Brahman. Buddhism promotes salvation of one's being through enlightenment. Nirvana is salvation. Same goal different means. Islam gives followers salvation through belief and good works. It all comes down to the same thing in the end just the methods used are different.


    I believe thou shalt not kill refers to murder.



    It is about not killing illegally. However there are many legal ways to kill someone we now consider murder. A Jew killing a Gentile is not considered punishable by a court system, only God. Killing a Gentile be accident does not fall under a court system while a Jew killing another Jew by accident is. Keep in my the OT sets Jews apart from everyone else. It is a double standard. What you believe is irrelevant to what scripture lays out as codified laws of a justice system.


    I wasn't talking about people changing their ways. The majority of high birthrates take place in third world countries. In these countries most of the women are uneducated. If we educate the women then the birthrate will slow down. Also we have the technology to produce more food for the population. I am not for government taking control over people's bodies. If that happens then human rights violations will happen. The civil rights is not a good comparison because that is an example of the government protecting people rights not taking them away. I am in no way in favor of government getting into population control. China is a good example of this. They force women to have abortions against their will. Also China's one child policy has created an imbalance between the genders as there are now more males then females. It is also creating other problems such as who is gonna take care of the elderly.



    Like I first said rights and morales are just shades of gray to me. For me it comes down to this. Do individual rights supersede the good of the whole. Although I am an outsider looking at China's population control I can see why they did it. It is an issue that had to be addressed before it became a crisis. It shows forethought be it a less than ideal method.


    I already addressed your statement in my last paragraph. The overpopulation myth has been addressed but we do not hear about it in the mainstream media.



    You addressed over why you disagreed with a policy but you did not address over-population. You just dismissed it without providing any reasons. You just said you do not believe in it. Belief is irrelevant to the fact that overpopulation is an issue in India and China. These nations would not be discussing/enacting policy to resolve this issue if it was a myth.

    We got way of topic discussing examples rather than the concept these example highlight. If you wish you can respond to the off-topic discussion, I will refrain from making further replies so it just ends. Im sure we could go on at even greater length than we have but we might as well end these topics in this thread for me.

    Back on topic

    Obvious there are many different beliefs in Christianity as well as dogma and doctrine. I'm not sure why this bothers you as different denomination have done this for centuries. Catholics were heretics from a Protestant view and vice-verse. The concept of a unified Christianity is not something new, it was just never acknowledged in the past unless for political gain or against an alien influence. Christianity has done a lot to ignore many of the differences between various denomination. Jehovah Witnesses still believe you must be a one of them to even get a chance at salvation. I gather that this teenager has been taught something similar. Their way is the only way for X reasons. The Catholic Church only in modern times has relaxed "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" outside the church there is no salvation.

    Pope Paul VI:
    ""We believe the Church is necessary for salvation because Christ, who is the sole mediator and exclusive way of salvation, renders Himself present for us in His body which is the Church. We must always remember the unity of the mystical body, without which there can be no salvation, is open to no one outside the Catholic Church.""

    Pretty much says it all. If you aint Catholic you are screwed.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #275 - September 22, 2013, 05:12 PM

    So does Christianity. dance


    Nope
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #276 - September 22, 2013, 05:13 PM

    I think someone is trying to do a Prince.  Wink


    Huh? I don't get that statement.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #277 - September 22, 2013, 05:36 PM

    Quote
    bogart
    You asked for archaic morales and laws in the OT. Whether you follow these laws is irrelevant to the question asked. You asked for examples, I provided them.


    Ok

    There are bunch of rules in the OT that were never meant to be permanent, except for the 10 commandments. The purpose of the 10 commandments is to expose our sin.

    Quote
    Hinduism's Brahman is a singular entity with many different forms or avatars. All these forms, depending on sect, may or may not be worshipped directly. However all these "Gods" are still part of a singular Godhead. Hinduism is about as polytheist as Christianity is. Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Just as with Christianity the Godhead takes on different avatars and forms but is still part of one supreme being. All figures are part of Brahman. Buddhism promotes salvation of one's being through enlightenment. Nirvana is salvation. Same goal different means. Islam gives followers salvation through belief and good works. It all comes down to the same thing in the end just the methods used are different.


    Nirvana is soul being released from the cycle of reincarnation. The purpose of the reincarnation cycle in Hinduism is to be born again until one achieve's spiritual enlightenment until they are released by the cycle. In this cycle one must do this themselves. Christianity states we have only one life and only Jesus can remove our sins. Islam states one must save themselves too.

    Quote
    It is about not killing illegally. However there are many legal ways to kill someone we now consider murder. A Jew killing a Gentile is not considered punishable by a court system, only God. Killing a Gentile be accident does not fall under a court system while a Jew killing another Jew by accident is. Keep in my the OT sets Jews apart from everyone else. It is a double standard. What you believe is irrelevant to what scripture lays out as codified laws of a justice system.


    The purpose of the laws of the OT was to regulate Jewish society. Killing a Gentile by accident may not fall under the Jewish court system, but that does not mean there was no penalty for it.

    Quote
    Like I first said rights and morales are just shades of gray to me. For me it comes down to this. Do individual rights supersede the good of the whole. Although I am an outsider looking at China's population control I can see why they did it. It is an issue that had to be addressed before it became a crisis. It shows forethought be it a less than ideal method.


    I am not for Majoritarian rule.

    Quote
    You addressed over why you disagreed with a policy but you did not address over-population. You just dismissed it without providing any reasons. You just said you do not believe in it. Belief is irrelevant to the fact that overpopulation is an issue in India and China. These nations would not be discussing/enacting policy to resolve this issue if it was a myth.


    That's because there is no overpopulation problem as the media states:

    http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

    Quote
    Obvious there are many different beliefs in Christianity as well as dogma and doctrine. I'm not sure why this bothers you as different denomination have done this for centuries. Catholics were heretics from a Protestant view and vice-verse. The concept of a unified Christianity is not something new, it was just never acknowledged in the past unless for political gain or against an alien influence. Christianity has done a lot to ignore many of the differences between various denomination. Jehovah Witnesses still believe you must be a one of them to even get a chance at salvation. I gather that this teenager has been taught something similar. Their way is the only way for X reasons. The Catholic Church only in modern times has relaxed "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" outside the church there is no salvation.


    Where did I say this bothers me?

    Quote
    Pope Paul VI:
    ""We believe the Church is necessary for salvation because Christ, who is the sole mediator and exclusive way of salvation, renders Himself present for us in His body which is the Church. We must always remember the unity of the mystical body, without which there can be no salvation, is open to no one outside the Catholic Church.""

    Pretty much says it all. If you aint Catholic you are screwed.


    The Catholic Church also does not define who is going to Hell. The Catechism states not define who is going to Hell. Catholicism states it is up to God.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #278 - September 22, 2013, 08:20 PM

    Nope

    Does. You have three gods.

    Yes, I am aware of the argument that it's a monotheism. That overlooks a few things. Hinduism is regarded by Christians as polytheistic, yet Hinduism basically regards all the different gods and whatnots as different manifestations of the same force. This is identical to the situation in Christianity, where the three aspects of God are just different bits of the same critter.

    So, if you want to call Hinduism polytheistic, you have to admit that Christianity is also polytheistic. If you want to insist that Christianity is monotheistic, you have to allow the same for Hinduism.

    Me? I don't care either way. Just make up your mind and stick with one consistent definition. Afro

    Now at this point I know what you're going to say. You're going to want to go with Hindus being monotheists, right? Cheesy


    Ok

    There are bunch of rules in the OT that were never meant to be permanent, except for the 10 commandments. The purpose of the 10 commandments is to expose our sin.

    So how do you know that the 10 C's were meant to be permanent? Where, exactly, does it say that in the Bible?

    And WTF do you mean by "their purpose is to expose our sin"? That appears to be a nonsensical statement. What it would mean is that it would be really quite alright to go around bonking thy neighbour's missus and killing random people, except that we have to have our sin exposed so that puts the kibosh on that. If we didn't have to have our sin exposed it'd be open slather.


    Quote
    That's because there is no overpopulation problem as the media states:

    http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

    Awesome argument you have there. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #279 - September 22, 2013, 08:29 PM

    Quote
    Does. You have three gods


    Nope we don't worship three gods. The Trinity is three in one. We worship one God.

    Quote
    So how do you know that the 10 C's were meant to be permanent? Where, exactly, does it say that in the Bible


    Because Christ mentioned the 10 commandments throughout the Gospels.

    Quote
    And WTF do you mean by "their purpose is to expose our sin"? That appears to be a nonsensical statement. What it would mean is that it would be really quite alright to go around bonking thy neighbour's missus and killing random people, except that we have to have our sin exposed so that puts the kibosh on that. If we didn't have to have our sin exposed it'd be open slather.


    It reminds us of our sinful nature. That is the best answer I can come up with.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #280 - September 22, 2013, 08:32 PM

    What's all this about exposing our sin? What sin?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #281 - September 22, 2013, 08:37 PM

    Nope we don't worship three gods. The Trinity is three in one. We worship one God.

    Wont work. You're playing word games. Fact is you're still as polytheisitic as the Hindus, or they're as monotheistic as you.

    And to say you worship one god is still deceptive, because I know for a fact that sometimes Christians pray to God (Big Daddy version) and sometimes they pray to Jesus (Zombie Offspring version) so that, my old china, is worshipping two gods unless you allow for Hindus being monotheistic. Don't try to tell me "praying" is not "worshipping" either, or I'll have to point out that sometimes Christians worship one or the other part.

    Catholicism is even more like Hinduism than other strains of Christianity, because it is chock full of minor deties (saints, etc) that get worhsipped like crazy all the time. They even go massively for idolatry too, just like the Hindus.


    Quote
    It reminds us of our sinful nature. That is the best answer I can come up with.

    It's not much of one. It seems to be just a few words which say nothing.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #282 - September 22, 2013, 09:06 PM

    What's all this about exposing our sin? What sin?


    Adultery, idolatry, stealing, and exc.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #283 - September 22, 2013, 09:08 PM

    Go over the idolatrry again...because your avatar suggests something.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #284 - September 22, 2013, 09:10 PM

    Adultery, idolatry, stealing, and exc.


    That's not my nature.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #285 - September 22, 2013, 09:12 PM

    Quote
    osmanthus
    Wont work. You're playing word games. Fact is you're still as polytheisitic as the Hindus, or they're as monotheistic as you.


    I still stay we worship one God.

    Quote
    And to say you worship one god is still deceptive, because I know for a fact that sometimes Christians pray to God (Big Daddy version) and sometimes they pray to Jesus (Zombie Offspring version) so that, my old china, is worshipping two gods unless you allow for Hindus being monotheistic. Don't try to tell me "praying" is not "worshipping" either, or I'll have to point out that sometimes Christians worship one or the other part.


    When we pray to Jesus we are also praying to God.

    Quote
    Catholicism is even more like Hinduism than other strains of Christianity, because it is chock full of minor deties (saints, etc) that get worhsipped like crazy all the time. They even go massively for idolatry too, just like the Hindus.


    Catholics don't worship the Saints as deities. They pray to them as a form of intercessory prayer. They believe the Saints will act on behalf of them to God and that is why they send their prayers to them so they give them to God. They don't worship idols. The statues are used as a focus point during their prayer or to help them focus on their prayer. They don't pray to the statues. They don't believe the statues are divine or anything.

    I know something of Catholic teachings as I did study Catholicism for a while.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #286 - September 22, 2013, 09:12 PM

    That's not my nature.


    You are too nice
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #287 - September 22, 2013, 09:12 PM

    Go over the idolatrry again...because your avatar suggests something.


    I don't pray to Mary and I am not Catholic.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #288 - September 22, 2013, 09:17 PM

    You are too nice


    Perhaps it may interest you to know that the 7 heavenly virtues and the 7 deadly sins are all character traits I have. And there is no sin, only right and wrong.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #289 - September 22, 2013, 09:19 PM


    Where did I say this bothers me?



    An assumption on my part. I just didn't see any other reason for posting a thread about someone saying you will go to Hell because you do not believe X or X.2
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #290 - September 22, 2013, 09:28 PM

    Ok
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #291 - September 22, 2013, 09:35 PM

    Guys....

    I have a very ueasy feeling about this C1981 vharacter just like I did with Selltek.

    As Han Solo once said:

    'I gotta bad feeling about this'.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #292 - September 22, 2013, 09:45 PM

    C1981 has been rather honest about herself as far as I can tell.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #293 - September 22, 2013, 09:47 PM

    Quod, it's not an issue of honesty, but intention.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #294 - September 22, 2013, 09:53 PM

    Intention is revealed in honesty. She's a christian, a true believer in god/christ, she's having a back and forth, and she hasn't tried to drag anyone to a church and throw them in holy water. I have nothing against her having a belief, and I'm fine with being honest about it without trying to convert.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #295 - September 22, 2013, 10:02 PM

    That's what we all thought about Selltek.


    I think C1981 isn't truly seeking debate. I see no evidence of that.

    I think C1981 has AIDS.

    Atheist In Disguise Syndrome.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #296 - September 22, 2013, 10:37 PM

    I still stay we worship one God.

    Yes, of course you say that. So what about the Hindus then? They're effectively doing the same thing you are.


    Quote
    When we pray to Jesus we are also praying to God.

    Obviously, but to a different manifestation, or different aspect, of the one. Again, this is what Hindus do too. So are they monotheists, or are you a polytheist? Why should it be regarded as one thing for you but another for them, when you are doing the same thing?


    Quote
    Catholics don't worship the Saints as deities. They pray to them as a form of intercessory prayer. They believe the Saints will act on behalf of them to God and that is why they send their prayers to them so they give them to God.

    I know this. However, it's a distinction without any real difference. If you are praying to a saint to give you a supernatural result, then that's that. How the saint does it is not the issue. You are still directing your veneration and hopes to an immortal and supernatural being for the purpose of getting a result you could not get by natural means.

    Sure, technically Catholics say that saints are not deities, but they are indistingushable from deities, both in what they do and in how they are approached. The only difference is that when Christians do it they claim it's monotheism, and when anyone else does it Christians say it's polytheism.

    Tell me this: if saints can't do anything on their own, and have to refer all requests higher up the food chain, then why bother praying to them at all? Why not go straight to #1? He's supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, so presumably he doesn't need a lower level bureaucracy to prioritise requests for him.

    Also, the very concept of "intercessory prayer" relies on an assumption that the Big Fella doesn't know what he's doing. He has to have a saint to point out what he should be doing, or else he'll get it wrong. Bit forgetful, is he? You have choose between an ominpotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God, in which case any saint who tried to interfere would be fucking up big time, or you have a God that needs saints to interfere, in which case he's not omniscient, or not omnibenevolent, or both. Which is it? Take your pick. You can't have it both ways.


    Quote
    They don't worship idols. The statues are used as a focus point during their prayer or to help them focus on their prayer. They don't pray to the statues. They don't believe the statues are divine or anything.

    No shit, Sherlock? And what, exactly, do you think polytheistic idolators use statues for? They don't build them as dildoes for elephants, y'know.

    Yes, that's right, they use the statues as a focus point during prayer/worship. Well, fancy that. Whoever woulda thunk it?

    So, if it's idolatry when they do it, why isn't it idolatry when Christians do it?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #297 - September 22, 2013, 10:39 PM

    That's what we all thought about Selltek.


    I think C1981 isn't truly seeking debate. I see no evidence of that.

    I think C1981 has AIDS.

    Atheist In Disguise Syndrome.


    She's free to post as long as she doesn't do anything to get herself restricted. I gave selltek the benefit of the doubt, very soon it was obvious he was just a silly little wanker.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #298 - September 22, 2013, 11:27 PM

    C1981 is benign. Way out there, but benign.

    This conversation kinda reminds me of those conversations you used to have as a kid about which cartoon character would beat the other in a fight.
  • Born Again Christian Trying To Tell Me I am Going To Hell On Facebook
     Reply #299 - September 22, 2013, 11:45 PM

    Quote
    osmanthus
    Yes, of course you say that. So what about the Hindus then? They're effectively doing the same thing you are.


    You got me on the Hindus. I use to attend a forum frequented by Hindus. Vaguely remember something about Brahma incarnations.

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    I know this. However, it's a distinction without any real difference. If you are praying to a saint to give you a supernatural result, then that's that. How the saint does it is not the issue. You are still directing your veneration and hopes to an immortal and supernatural being for the purpose of getting a result you could not get by natural means.


    And they pass our veneration and hopes onto God.

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    Sure, technically Catholics say that saints are not deities, but they are indistingushable from deities, both in what they do and in how they are approached. The only difference is that when Christians do it they claim it's monotheism, and when anyone else does it Christians say it's polytheism.


    They Saints are distinguishable from deities. Deities don't get their power from someone else. The Saints do get the power from someone else.

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    Tell me this: if saints can't do anything on their own, and have to refer all requests higher up the food chain, then why bother praying to them at all? Why not go straight to #1? He's supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, so presumably he doesn't need a lower level bureaucracy to prioritise requests for him.


    Catholics pray to them because of some verse in the Epistle of Timothy about intercessory prayer. They claim asking a Saint to pray for them is the same as asking a living person to pray for them.

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    Also, the very concept of "intercessory prayer" relies on an assumption that the Big Fella doesn't know what he's doing. He has to have a saint to point out what he should be doing, or else he'll get it wrong. Bit forgetful, is he? You have choose between an ominpotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent God, in which case any saint who tried to interfere would be fucking up big time, or you have a God that needs saints to interfere, in which case he's not omniscient, or not omnibenevolent, or both. Which is it? Take your pick. You can't have it both ways.


    The purpose of intercessory prayer is to ask others for help. God knows what is going on, however it is our duty as Christians to help other people and that includes praying for them.

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    No shit, Sherlock? And what, exactly, do you think polytheistic idolators use statues for? They don't build them as dildoes for elephants, y'know.


    The last time I checked they believed the statues are a manifestation of a deity.

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    So, if it's idolatry when they do it, why isn't it idolatry when Christians do it?


    Because we don't worship the statues as a manifestation of a deity.
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