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Theme Changer

 Topic: I have a theory about ex-muslims...

 (Read 20245 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #60 - January 30, 2011, 06:39 PM

    How long was it before you awoke from that dream? Tragic.
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #61 - January 30, 2011, 07:00 PM

    So seldom reality transcends our dreams. Tragic indeed.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #62 - January 30, 2011, 08:00 PM

    Hypo, don't you think looking at human history, that it is more normal for a human to be religious at some point in their life, to have an existential crisis at some point in their life, to underestimate others' abilities to deceive at some point in their life? Or is it more normal to never experience these and be completely rational all the time? Does any of it have anything to do with our intellect?



    Yes of course you are right,there's irrationality in every one of us,because no one is perfect. You may not be rational all the time like for example when you fall in love{ Cheesy,but let me hasten to add it's a desirable form of irrationality!},or when you think that a religion can solve your problems[extreme irrationality,where your 'guided' perceptions completely mask the truth]
    You need your intellect to bail you out after you have been zapped into doing something silly. When under stress, man seeks neat short cuts to relieve it,it's human nature.
    When emotions hold sway over your mind a lot of weird things can happen. Fantasy can make people creative or destructive depending on how you look at it.
    Without intellect there can be no reason LOL!, but an absolute idiot can have a lot of emotions that are very important for the decisions he makes.He is more likely to be religious. I am not saying every religious person is like that mind you.
    In a person in whom the balance between reason and feelings tilt towards feelings,it's likely that he's more religious than the guy in whom this balance is even.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #63 - January 30, 2011, 08:17 PM

    Hypocrisy indeed. A Muslim brother called me a whore for my apostasy...yet this same person "struggles" [ Cheesy]with a porn addiction. Go figure!

    As for my unfortunate journey into Islam-believe me, { I do!}I've had plenty of moments where I have questioned it myself. I certainly feel that I allowed myself to believe the "Islam is THE CURE!!!" nonsense and paid way too much attention the dawahganda.


    You are like a breath of fresh air! With a capacity to think for yourself ,that enables you to steer clear of apologist's BS.No wonder you came out so soon!
    I wonder whether some synthetic muslimah would have seen that brother as undergoing therapy under Allah's care and that the current state was a slow withdrawal from his habit.
    Yay! you can get very creative with your justifications,if you have the inclination.The deluded can be very good at it!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #64 - January 30, 2011, 09:07 PM

    .
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #65 - January 30, 2011, 10:01 PM

    @Hypo

    Did you miss the abuse I directed your way in my long post? I hid it within a large bloc of text deliberately. It confirms my impression that spotty-faced little chits can't read anything more challenging than emoticons. Teapot missed the allusion to himself as well. Dumb bitches.

    I didn't miss it. Angry  Tongue

    Regarding your comment, you know I'm not dogmatic, and am willing to listen to all points of view; and indeed, willing to change my mind.  That is what is particularly important, unless you happen to be a supergenius.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #66 - January 30, 2011, 11:36 PM

    Ateapotist is a true philosopher, I never had a doubt about it.


    I am more than certain that your conversion, Mount a Bison, had everything to do with pussy. No doubt about it either. It was a simple observation, that no one deserves Ex-Muslim badge of honor, until they have come up with a perfect come-back for Allah, before he sends them to eternal breakdancing you know where. That's all our ratiocination was. Nothing more. You knew it, Ateapotist knew it and all the dancers here know it.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #67 - January 31, 2011, 12:41 AM

    @Hypo

    Did you miss the abuse I directed your way in my long post? I hid it within a large bloc of text deliberately. It confirms my impression that spotty-faced little chits can't read anything more challenging than emoticons. Teapot missed the allusion to himself as well. Dumb bitches.


    Lmao I am sorry to disappoint you, I am neither a spotty faced chit nor a cow worshiper.Sometimes a diarrhea of words can be elegantly condensed to what is suggested by an emoticon. Like a mini skirt it tickles your imagination and keeps you focused. Of course it may offend the senses of someone who scoffs at brevity when it comes to words but doesn't waste any time to get 'crack'in at the sight of a hairy Fatima or a catamite.

    Quote
    A man converts because in the first instance to the last, something in him clicks, masses of endorphins are released and off he goes running after that Good Feeling. Whatever support there is for the position newly adopted is cobbled together later. The gut decides, the brain opines.


    In that case he is better off furiously masturbating every time he needs a high,no weird  dogmas to mess up his brain,no retrospective apologia. A Good feeling of the person, by the person, for the person!Endorphins on demand anywhere,any time!
    You need a fully functional brain to have the clarity of vision to spot great solutions like these when your gut tends to prefer nonsensical routes that are inimical to your sanity in the long run.
    What ever gave you the idea that truth is joyless? In your numerous true expeditions of breast sucking ,haven't you discovered that true,natural breasts taste and give more pleasure than silicone implanted ones? How liberating the truth is for a gullible woman who has been conned into believing otherwise!Just imagine ! the exhilaration of  a poor guy, with an average size penis, who discovers the truth of the irrelevance of penis size,when he actually drives his partner crazy by focusing on the job at hand,instead of worrying about the size of his dick.
    As a person who has a natural aversion to pseudos, I am perforce 'condemned' to seek the truth. The ecstasy that I experience when I hit pay dirt at times makes the quest worthwhile.The great joy of discovery of true emotions in people ,meaningful endeavors results in a volcanic eruption of endorphins within my system.
    In times of drought of course I have my tool in hand to kick start the endorphin flow!
    What more could a guy want? Pure ,unadulterated pleasure! aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

    Quote
    That is what is particularly important, unless you happen to be a supergenius.


    Come now! ateapotist don't be so modest.This forum needs a super genius,the spot for 'Great Philosopher' is all ready taken though,so forget that label!



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #68 - January 31, 2011, 01:47 AM

    Ateapotist is a true philosopher, I never had a doubt about it.

    @Alex:  Quit flirting with me.  I will not ask you again.       (Sorry, I am catching the Bison virus.)


    I am more than certain that your conversion, Mount a Bison, had everything to do with pussy. No doubt about it either. It was a simple observation, that no one deserves Ex-Muslim badge of honor, until they have come up with a perfect come-back for Allah, before he sends them to eternal breakdancing you know where. That's all our ratiocination was. Nothing more. You knew it, Ateapotist knew it and all the dancers here know it.

    I agree with you in your analysis that one cannot become an ex-Muslim just because they don't like Islam.  They have to believe it is not the true religion.  Who wants to go to hell??  They don't necessarily have to be able to articulate their reasons why they don't believe Islam is true.  In fact, merely saying that Islam is unethical hence cannot come from a good God can serve as a reason.

    I would add one little point: People tend to follow the opinions of people they respect and admire.  For example most Muslims only listen to Muslim scholars, and never listen to the likes of Richard Dawkins with an open mind.  And of course, it would be fair to apply this rule to most ideologies.  As soon as one looks at their worldview from a different perspective, and it makes more sense to them, there is a chance that they will switch over to the other side.  Evolution made much more sense to me when I gave it some serious thought with an open mind.  It was much more plausible than the Adam-and-Eve creation story, and creationism in general.  And I trusted scientists more than I trusted the mullahs.  I saw that the mullahs never allow questioning or critical thinking within Islam.  That is the recipe for groupthink.  So in summary, a lot depends on belief and trust.  One may not be able to articulate Einstein's theory of relativity, but they believe it because they have faith in the scientific method and they trust scientists.  Hence many apostates may not have apostatised for emotional/ethical/opportunistic reasons, they just lost faith in what their mullahs were telling them.



    Come now! ateapotist don't be so modest.This forum needs a super genius,the spot for 'Great Philosopher' is all ready taken though,so forget that label!

    @Hypo:  You'd better quit flirting with me too.

    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #69 - January 31, 2011, 06:52 PM

    What is the difference between "articulate" and "merely saying"? I know, I know, I am missing the point... No, I do see your point and it makes sense at a superficial glance. However, I believe, one does need a fair amount of intelligence to free him/herself from fears of eternal "breakdancing in jahannam"* (*plagiarized from MAB). No one will take such a risk based merely on unarticulated suspicion due to what's at stake. So I challenge you to show me one true Ex-Muslim, who freed her/himself from such irrational fears merely with an unarticulated feeling of "something is wrong here".

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #70 - January 31, 2011, 09:15 PM

    .
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #71 - February 01, 2011, 12:21 AM

    Islame, those three categories are all artificial..

    You know very well that Muslims try to see us as being of cat. I and II, while clearly it is >90% cat. III.
    You really thought anyone know want to miss out on eternall drinking wine and fucking virgins , if only I had given Islam a credibility of 1%!??? just joking ofcourse: It is certainly not about punishment/reward, rather the desire to find the truth.
    That quest led to my apostasy, and I guess basically all of ours..
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #72 - February 01, 2011, 05:12 PM

    i was thinking of this thread Islame and i have a bit of a problem with "Opportunistic converter"
     i couldn't get the image of a teenager let's say.. to go out bar hopping or whatever, and decided to become a an exmuslim solely on that basis..
    i would hope someone makes a decision because they truly believe / understand it  and not just as a phase or trend,  because bar hopping gets old..
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #73 - February 01, 2011, 05:26 PM

    So you are supporting my theory? Why not just say so? Wink

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #74 - February 01, 2011, 05:38 PM

    i was thinking of this thread Islame and i have a bit of a problem with "Opportunistic converter"
     i couldn't get the image of a teenager let's say.. to go out bar hopping or whatever, and decided to become a an exmuslim solely on that basis..
    i would hope someone makes a decision because they truly believe / understand it  and not just as a phase or trend,  because bar hopping gets old..

    It not just about trends going old, I would apply exmuslims who leave Islam because they are gay to the "opportunistic converter" category too.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #75 - February 01, 2011, 06:36 PM

    There are two kinds of people IsLame. The first type are those who stay muslim irrespective of their sexual orientation and twist the rules of Islam to suit their needs. The second type are those who will actually question the fundamental principles of Islam and see that there is something very wrong with it's rules. It doesn't matter if the person in question would have remained muslim if he was straight; that he may never have questioned Islam otherwise. Most of us have come to be where we are because something happened in our lives (regardless of how insignificant it might have been) that made us question Islam deeply enough to see it for it's massive flaws. It doesn't matter what that might've been, it could be anything from realising you are gay to simply seeing an atheist video that opened your eyes to alternative views.

    I'm sure there probably are some opportunistic converters out there. I bet the majority of them are those who didn't have a religious upbringing and therefore don't have years of brainwashing to overcome. For the majority of cases however, this is simply not the case. Most of us have had to deeply question Islam to leave it. You don't get over the fear of hell and god because you're gay. You either bend the rules (like most muslims seem to do) or you question the fundamental principles (and that leads you on to iii).
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #76 - February 01, 2011, 07:09 PM

    Quote
    I'm sure there probably are some opportunistic converters out there. I bet the majority of them are those who didn't have a religious upbringing and therefore don't have years of brainwashing to overcome. For the majority of cases however, this is simply not the case. Most of us have had to deeply question Islam to leave it. You don't get over the fear of hell and god because you're gay. You either bend the rules (like most muslims seem to do) or you question the fundamental principles (and that leads you on to iii).


    Bingo!
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #77 - February 01, 2011, 09:05 PM

    .
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #78 - February 01, 2011, 09:26 PM

    Reading a thread before commenting on it? That's daft, Bison!

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #79 - March 07, 2011, 04:17 PM

    I can't actually choose one and say yep that's the reason.

    Reading the quran alone is sufficient in understanding that those men created a god in their own image, not the other way around. To apply human emotions and constructs to this all powerful god is in itself an insult to that god.

    And reading every other so called holy book or doctrine is just further evidence of how religions are nothing but ways of controlling mass groups.

    It's simple, knowledge is handed down. The quran consists of nothing but early human discoveries whether they are arab discoveries or greek, chinese, hindu, christian or jew. It's a big book of then-common knowledge, the only problem I have with it is that it claims to be revelations from ALLAH and that no one before allah's revelation could have known that stuff. It's an outright lie.

    Let's not even get started on the messenger himself who was a walking hypocrite. I refuse to believe that the so called role model hand picked by god was the type who would tell men they COULD have many wives but that it is not recommended since they can't treat all equally, yet who would go and marry as many as he wanted.

    Religion pretty much kills itself, if you are able to build enough courage to accept that there might not be some invisible safety net that is watching out for you. The idea of a god is comforting one, but it doesn't make god any more real.

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan.
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #80 - March 07, 2011, 04:23 PM

    I've been accused of thinking I am "too smart" and looking down on others. And I try so hard to explain to them that it has nothing to do with what I perceive my level of intelligence to be in comparison to theirs.

    I don't think intelligence plays as much of a role in faith as we'd like to think because there are intelligent people out there who have strong religious faith. I think it has more to do with courage and the basic human need: sense of belonging.

    It is extremely frightening to think that once we die, that is all there is to it. When a family member gets ill and it's beyond our control, it's comforting to believe there is something we can pray to and ask for help. It is comforting to think that we have something watching over us, loving us. So you could have an IQ of 160, I don't think it would matter if you are not ready to accept the possibility that it might not be there. I would know how that feels, I spent nights crying and praying to god to keep my family safe and every day felt I needed to sacrifice more and more just to be "worthy" of god's blessing.

    I've come across those intelligent people who refuse to let go of religion; on one hand, their "logic" is telling them to let go, but their fears are making them cling on. And they have this really awful inner conflict, and though they may disguise it well, every now and then it comes out. Not all, I'm just saying I have met many like that.

    It's just a shame that religions exist today, having faith is one thing, but truly believing your kind is superior and "chosen" by god is another. It leads to so much prejudice, intolerance and hatred. =[


    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan.
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #81 - March 07, 2011, 04:36 PM

    Quote
    on one hand, their "logic" is telling them to let go, but their fears are making them cling on. And they have this really awful inner conflict, and though they may disguise it well, every now and then it comes out. Not all, I'm just saying I have met many like that.

    This is how I was for most of my Muslim life. The fear of hell is that's ingrained into you from an early age was really hard to let go of.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #82 - March 07, 2011, 08:46 PM

    I've been accused of thinking I am "too smart" and looking down on others. And I try so hard to explain to them that it has nothing to do with what I perceive my level of intelligence to be in comparison to theirs.

    I don't think intelligence plays as much of a role in faith as we'd like to think because there are intelligent people out there who have strong religious faith. I think it has more to do with courage and the basic human need: sense of belonging.

    It is extremely frightening to think that once we die, that is all there is to it. When a family member gets ill and it's beyond our control, it's comforting to believe there is something we can pray to and ask for help. It is comforting to think that we have something watching over us, loving us. So you could have an IQ of 160, I don't think it would matter if you are not ready to accept the possibility that it might not be there. I would know how that feels, I spent nights crying and praying to god to keep my family safe and every day felt I needed to sacrifice more and more just to be "worthy" of god's blessing.

    I've come across those intelligent people who refuse to let go of religion; on one hand, their "logic" is telling them to let go, but their fears are making them cling on. And they have this really awful inner conflict, and though they may disguise it well, every now and then it comes out. Not all, I'm just saying I have met many like that.

    It's just a shame that religions exist today, having faith is one thing, but truly believing your kind is superior and "chosen" by god is another. It leads to so much prejudice, intolerance and hatred. =[




    Very nicely written. You should also make an intro thread to tell us about yourself and how & why you left Islam Smiley.
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #83 - March 07, 2011, 11:19 PM

    I don't think intelligence plays as much of a role in faith as we'd like to think because there are intelligent people out there who have strong religious faith. I think it has more to do with courage and the basic human need: sense of belonging.

    It's just a shame that religions exist today, having faith is one thing, but truly believing your kind is superior and "chosen" by god is another. It leads to so much prejudice, intolerance and hatred. =[

    I especially agree with those points.

    As human beings, we are vulnerable to indoctrination and fear.

    It doesn't matter who you are.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #84 - March 08, 2011, 08:06 PM

    All three for me. In particular, #2. I'm a frequently drunk, bacon sandwich addict.
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #85 - March 08, 2011, 08:13 PM

    Please feel free to create an introduction topic.. Smiley

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
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  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #86 - August 10, 2011, 09:41 AM

    ooops posted in wrong thread 

    Teach us to care and not to care / Teach us to sit still.
    What do we live for; if it is not to make life less difficult to each other
    You are the music while the music lasts.
    T.S.Eliot
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #87 - August 10, 2011, 10:02 AM


    i)   Poor role model converter - an apostate who has been subject to Muslims (e.g. family, peers, Bin Laden etc) who have left a poor and lasting impression on them. 

    ii)  Opportunistic converter - one who has become an apostate as the religion does not permit them to do what they want to do.  Examples include drinking alcohol, having sex outside marriage, marrying a non-Muslim,   etc.

    iii)  Ideological converter  - somebody who finds the underlying principles behind Islam are fundamentally flawed



    Mainly number three. I went to a highly non-muslim majority school, however I didn't give up belief in god based on that, but it made me question sooner I guess it made me wonder about lots of things and led to an unsettled mind. I never prayed and such, but mum did force me to read the quran as a kid - but even then I was wondering why am I being made to recite words that could mean anything.

    I never really looked into islam, I would talk to allah sometimes at night in bed, crying and asking him to force me to be pious lol. I wasn't allowed out, other than going to school. Only found a little bit more freedom by going to uni, but I still lived at home.

    Studying physics at uni Tongue is bad for some angles lol, it led me finally decide i need to 'solve' this religion issue in my life and i looked into islam a bit more, and i looked into christianity along side, some youtube videos, webpages - that's pretty much when I decided islam was utter bs, but I wasn't ready to let go of god so I did for about a month maybe consider myself a practically a christian (didn't baptise or anything though Tongue lol) and then i kind thought who am i fooling....I can't believe these crazy stories as much as I wanted to feel the comfort of certainty.

    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #88 - August 10, 2011, 10:05 AM

    All of the above @ the OP

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: I have a theory about ex-muslims...
     Reply #89 - August 10, 2011, 10:54 AM

    When I was none practicing Muslim, all was well, I was easy going, happy with having the faith, and because I studied the bible and made friends with real Christian lovely people,  it taught me that Allah/God is truly great, and he knows and judges us on what’s in our heart (as long as we belied in Jesus, which I did as all Muslims do) Oh I had a logical  theory about Jesus and the trinity too – but let’s not go into that !!  Anyway at that time I was actually happy and content and called myself Muslim even though I didn’t pray or fast or wear hijab.

    But when I decided its time for me to start practicing, starting to observe my prayers and fasting for the last 5 years (but no hijab thank you, I had another logical theory about that),  that felt so great at the start, a feeling I am gooder than thou,  started reading more of the hadith and seerah, made friends with a lot of Islamic oriented societies people etc...   then the more you delve into Islam and start practicing you start to realise and be told, this is haram, that is haram etc etc, no music, no plucking my eyebrows, we mustn’t be friends with non Muslims,  I can’t go out to none-Muslims colleagues’ leaving do etc etc... I felt burdened a lot. 

    I really can’t put my finger on a specific time/day/thing when I decided all this Islamic practice wasn’t logical, I just envied my Christian friends who I have been avoiding for the last few years since going back to Islam (and they too have been avoiding me and very disappointed I haven’t converted to Christianity)  I envied their freedom and their ease, their sureness that God loves them, God already forgave them their trespasses,  their prayer is easy, simple and from the heart at any time, in any state, no need for all the prescriptive wudu and recital of ayahs, one can just talk to God anytime they want.    Then I started to see all these rituals, rules in Islam is just silly, how can a God prescribe all these things on his subjects.....  this lead me to read more of the hadiths, the kind of hadiths that are not cherry picked for us, the ones that most Muslims either haven’t heard of, or pretend they didn’t exist,  about Mohammed about his sex life, about the brutality of his treatment of some people....  how disappointed I was to follow this Prophet Medicine advise, and suddenly for the first time in my life, I realised Islam may be nothing but a human made thing.

    I have no idea what happened after that, I just realised OMG, I have been deceived and cheated.... I felt  angry for a while, but happy at the end...

    For me it wasn't No2, but perhaps a bit of 1 and mostly 3

    Teach us to care and not to care / Teach us to sit still.
    What do we live for; if it is not to make life less difficult to each other
    You are the music while the music lasts.
    T.S.Eliot
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