Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 03:50 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
February 23, 2025, 09:40 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
February 22, 2025, 09:50 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
February 22, 2025, 02:56 PM

German nationalist party ...
February 21, 2025, 10:31 AM

New Britain
February 17, 2025, 11:51 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
February 14, 2025, 08:00 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
February 13, 2025, 10:07 PM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
February 13, 2025, 08:20 PM

Russia invades Ukraine
February 13, 2025, 11:01 AM

Islam and Science Fiction
February 11, 2025, 11:57 PM

Gaza assault
February 05, 2025, 10:04 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!

 (Read 42202 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3 45 6 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #90 - April 12, 2009, 08:54 AM

    All gods are idols, especially Allah.


    Kill the Buddha!

    "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! For he is not the Buddha, just an expression of your longing. There is no 'one true faith', it's all in your head!" -Lin Chi (or so Smiley)

    (subsitute Buddha for any God of your choosing)

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #91 - April 12, 2009, 09:07 AM

    I hope nobody will ever claim that Archimedes or Epicurus or Leonardo Da Vinci were Muslims, or I will wage an unholy war upon them.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #92 - April 12, 2009, 09:09 AM

    Epicurus was the shit. Did you know that in Hebrew his name means heretic/infidel? 'Apikoros' it's rendered. dance

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #93 - April 12, 2009, 09:16 AM

    We should brag about "Miracles in Epicurean philosophy" and how Epicurus knew the world was made of little indivisible particles that have unpredictable fluctuations... which is a clear reference to quantum physics and Heisenberg uncertainty principle! *bows in awe*

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #94 - April 12, 2009, 09:18 AM

    Getting rid of gods and religions would go a long way towards removing a lot of reasons for people to hate and kill each other for no good reason.

    Next question: How?



    do you really believe that if human dont believe in god we will not hate and kill other human?




    Do you believe Muslims would be more tolerant of Jews, if they became atheists?



    do you mean palestinians ?

    No, I said Jews & Muslims

    Getting rid of gods and religions would go a long way towards removing a lot of reasons for people to hate and kill each other for no good reason.

    Next question: How?



    do you really believe that if human dont believe in god we will not hate and kill other human?






    Do you believe Muslims would be more tolerant of Jews, if they became atheists?



    do you mean palestinians ?

    No, I said Jews & Muslims

    palestinians muslims?

    No, please reread my last post and the post before that.

    let me ask you who put 6 millions jews in gas chamber muslims or non muslims?

    Mahatma Gandhi?

    no, gandhi was a muslim, the killers of jews were non muslims and nazi atheist

    Gandhi was a Muslim, and Nazi's were atheists  Cheesy  
    P.S  I am a Mohamedan Jew

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #95 - April 12, 2009, 09:20 AM


    The beliefs and ideologies of Stalin and Pol Pot were more political than religious (or lack of religious views). They weren't FIGHTING for atheism.

    http://odd-innuendo.net/archives/97



    i got news for you dont believe everything you read, some time we have to use our brain


    That's what we (the ex-Muslims) are doing. With the Quran  Cheesy

    Also, we have stopped believing and god hasn't struck us down. We are resuming life as normal.



    you are going backward my friend islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and  the enemies of islam shaking their head , why people converting to this religion finmad

    Its not the fastest growing religion

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #96 - April 12, 2009, 09:33 AM

    When religious people claim that their religion is "the right religion" because it is the fastest growing religion, just ask them if it was the wrong religion back then when it was not the fastest growing one Cheesy

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #97 - April 12, 2009, 09:35 AM

    Yeah I thought of that line but was having plenty of fun with all the other lines.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #98 - April 12, 2009, 09:44 AM


    are you kidding me?


    No way Kope! I'd never shit you bro.

    What do you think my brother? Do you think my friend is right? Is Elvis still alive?

    I mean, he DID say, I don't have evidence simply because I DON'T wanna believe.

    And you say the same thing about god.

    So if you suggest god must exist.

    Then hell Kope, Elvis MUST surely still exist.

    Allah-hu-akbar!!

    or in my friend's case, Elvis-hu-akbar!



     Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #99 - April 12, 2009, 09:54 AM

    Again how? Many gods may well exist & be responsible for many things. Each god might be assigned a particular department, in the Grand Project of creation of the Universe. Aren't there many human collaborators in the creation of any human project?

    Once you accept the argument of the existence of a god, you put forth various arguments in support of the belief that there must be a deity who created the Universe, nature, us, other animals etc.

    All the arguments which are used for the existence of the One God can just as easily be used for the existence of many gods.


    Religious ideas aren't static; They evolve. At their most primitive they start out as fetishes, place-dwelling spirits etc. until you get multiple deities and then finally the universal abstract god which is the highest conception as man is thinking more in values and dimensions and is also more mobile - less tied to place like earlier gods.

    Quote
    Not at all, idols are about as self referential as the Torah or the Quran, when a Muslim treats the Quran as holy as holy, greets djinns on his left & right after prayers he's being intellectually parasitic too. When a Catholic bows before idols, he's trying as a human to grasp higher spiritual truths. Its very difficult to focus on the sublime without something concrete-Muslims bow towards Arabia(why Arabia?), Catholics have idols & other polytheists worship before idols.When polytheists worship, they don't always believe that the idol is God, they try to grasp the essence of Almighty God through it.

    Idolatry is as intellectually parasitic & self referential than Almighty God dictating a book containing the perfect morals of all time to an illiterate man in a cave!


    There's always that tendency but Islam more than any other religion strives against it for Islam is religion in its highest form.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #100 - April 12, 2009, 10:01 AM

    Evidence?


    More advanced civilisations developed monotheism or were monotheistic compared to their heathen counterparts.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #101 - April 12, 2009, 10:06 AM

    Evidence?

    More advanced civilisations developed monotheism or were monotheistic compared to their heathen counterparts.

    Which explains why the Japanese are monotheistic. And of course ancient Rome and Greece were exceedingly primitive for their time. Anything else?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #102 - April 12, 2009, 10:07 AM

    There's always that tendency but Islam more than any other religion strives against it for Islam is religion in its highest form.

    Please explain how the death penalty for apostasy and flogging or stoning for adultery constitutes "religion in its highest form".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #103 - April 12, 2009, 10:08 AM

    Evidence?

    More advanced civilisations developed monotheism or were monotheistic compared to their heathen counterparts.

    Which explains why the Japanese are monotheistic. And of course ancient Rome and Greece were exceedingly primitive for their time. Anything else?


    There's a difference between the intelligentsia and the masses here...

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #104 - April 12, 2009, 10:09 AM

    Again how? Many gods may well exist & be responsible for many things. Each god might be assigned a particular department, in the Grand Project of creation of the Universe. Aren't there many human collaborators in the creation of any human project?

    Once you accept the argument of the existence of a god, you put forth various arguments in support of the belief that there must be a deity who created the Universe, nature, us, other animals etc.

    All the arguments which are used for the existence of the One God can just as easily be used for the existence of many gods.


    Religious ideas aren't static; They evolve. At their most primitive they start out as fetishes, place-dwelling spirits etc. until you get multiple deities and then finally the universal abstract god which is the highest conception as man is thinking more in values and dimensions and is also more mobile - less tied to place like earlier gods.



    Again this isn't a universal movement of polytheism followed by monotheism. Buddhism came out of a polytheistic society, it preached an agnostic doctrine, seems it skipped the monotheistic stage. The Jains are an atheistic belief system, seems they too skipped the monotheistic stage.

    Some polytheistic faiths have lasted & thrived into the modern societies.

    Also many monotheisms are tied to a particular location, Judaism to Israel & Zoroastrianism to ancient Persia for example, while agnostic faiths like Buddhism has travelled to places far away from its birthplace. Why even Hinduism spread all over Indonesia, Bali is still Hindu!

    Anyway just because some societies have exchanged polytheisms for monotheism(often by force, like the Meccan Arabs) doesn't prove that those ideas are intellectual superior, anymore than Afghanistan becoming Taliban ruled after being Communist ruled prove that Taliban is intellectually superior to Communism!

    Mind you, I'm not saying that monotheisms are inferior, just that there's no inherent superiority in monotheistic beliefs compared to polytheistic. Superstitions aren't reduced in monotheism, just concentrated in One God.

    There's always that tendency but Islam more than any other religion strives against it for Islam is religion in its highest form.


    Islam claims to be religion in its highest form, again that doesn't make it so anymore than my claim to be smarter than Einstein makes me so. So far, Islam has little to show for that claim, either in theory or practice.

    Islam's Quran is supposed to be God's final revelation to all mankind, telling them all that they need to know-thus it becomes the worst form of intellectually parasitic & self referential, all change is hindered which is not in accordance with the Quran, Muslim nations were the last to ban slavery, in inheritance laws, divorce laws, the Quran is the ultimate book for all Muslims' reference as it is supposedly the literal word of Allah, thus it obstructs the process of change like few non literalist faiths do.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #105 - April 12, 2009, 10:09 AM

    Keep digging. Methinks you could do with the exercise. Grin

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #106 - April 12, 2009, 10:14 AM

    Evidence?


    More advanced civilisations developed monotheism or were monotheistic compared to their heathen counterparts.


    How so? Ancient Israel was Jewish monotheistic & independent for a millennia, it produced little science & technology compared to Greece & Rome, Medieval Islam which was Muslim produced some science & technology, so did polytheistic China, today successful monotheists are the European Ashkenazi Jews & the White Christians, monotheistic Islam is extremely backward, as are many Latin American nations.


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #107 - April 12, 2009, 10:16 AM

    Please explain how the death penalty for apostasy and flogging or stoning for adultery constitutes "religion in its highest form".


    Strawman. Those are just canonisations of Muhammed (which were nonetheless historically necessary for Islam's development as a civilisation) not the religion per se.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #108 - April 12, 2009, 10:22 AM

    Please explain how the death penalty for apostasy and flogging or stoning for adultery constitutes "religion in its highest form".


    Strawman. Those are just canonisations of Muhammed (which were nonetheless historically necessary for Islam's development as a civilisation) not the religion per se.


    All your arguments in favor of monotheism are strawmen as well. In theory or practice, they don't constitute any higher civilization, at least the monotheism called Islam definitely didn't, the other two are also not universally superior.

    BTW, the flogging & stonings for adultery come from Allah(SWT), they're not Muhammad's canonizations, at least according to the monotheism called Islam!

    Thus they're self referential, intellectually parasitic & applicable for all time! All Muslims need to do is read the Quran & apply these, which they do! grin12

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #109 - April 12, 2009, 10:32 AM

    Please explain how the death penalty for apostasy and flogging or stoning for adultery constitutes "religion in its highest form".

    Strawman. Those are just canonisations of Muhammed (which were nonetheless historically necessary for Islam's development as a civilisation) not the religion per se.

    Bullshit. For a start Islam is a religion, not a civilisation. There are plenty of Islamic societies which are not "civilised". Some of them are, but not all.

    Second, those "canonisations of Mohammed" are part of mainstream Islam and have been for centuries. Ergo, they may not be the religion but they are certainly part of it. My question still stands and your charge of "strawman" is pathetic.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #110 - April 12, 2009, 10:44 AM

    Again this isn't a universal movement of polytheism followed by monotheism. Buddhism came out of a polytheistic society, it preached an agnostic doctrine,
    seems it skipped the monotheistic stage. The Jains are an atheistic belief system, seems they too skipped the monotheistic stage.

    Some polytheistic faiths have lasted & thrived into the modern societies.


    It's a tendency.

    Quote
    Also many monotheisms are tied to a particular location, Judaism to Israel & Zoroastrianism to ancient Persia for example, while agnostic faiths like Buddhism has travelled to places far away from its birthplace. Why even Hinduism spread all over Indonesia, Bali is still Hindu!


    I mean the fact you have a god that lives on some rock not holy places. I didn't say there aren't leftovers like in Islam there are djinn, angels etc.

    Quote
    Mind you, I'm not saying that monotheisms are inferior, just that there's no inherent superiority in monotheistic beliefs compared to polytheistic. Superstitions aren't reduced in monotheism, just concentrated in One God.


    I disagree. Islamic tawheed is remarkably free from superstition. You need to understand that at that time there's not the means in terms of knowledge to negate god and some other beliefs. Anyone sensible would have accepted the existence of god hundreds of years ago. On the other hand ancient atheism is really pantheism - a primitive phenomenon.

    Quote
    Islam's Quran is supposed to be God's final revelation to all mankind, telling them all that they need to know-thus it becomes the worst form of intellectually parasitic & self referential, all change is hindered which is not in accordance with the Quran, Muslim nations were the last to ban slavery, in inheritance laws, divorce laws, the Quran is the ultimate book for all Muslims' reference as it is supposedly the literal word of Allah, thus it obstructs the process of change like few non literalist faiths do.


    It's not at all fair to lagging state of muslim countries negate the historically progressive role of Islam and its achievements.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #111 - April 12, 2009, 10:53 AM

    Bullshit. For a start Islam is a religion, not a civilisation. There are plenty of Islamic societies which are not "civilised". Some of them are, but not all.


    If Islam isn't a civilisation it certainly was. All countries in which Islam is the dominant religion are civilised societies too. Civilised not "civilised".

    Quote
    Second, those "canonisations of Mohammed" are part of mainstream Islam and have been for centuries. Ergo, they may not be the religion but they are certainly part of it. My question still stands and your charge of "strawman" is pathetic.


    This is about beliefs not about laws and practices that were developed or adopted. My strawman charge sticks. That Islam has punishments for adultery and apostasy is completely irrelevant.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #112 - April 12, 2009, 10:53 AM

    It's not at all fair to lagging state of muslim countries negate the historically progressive role of Islam and its achievements.

    What? All you're really saying is that they were progressive when they were progressive and they weren't when they weren't. Same applies to anyone else. In other words, you have no point.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #113 - April 12, 2009, 10:56 AM

    All your arguments in favor of monotheism are strawmen as well. In theory or practice, they don't constitute any higher civilization, at least the monotheism called Islam definitely didn't, the other two are also not universally superior.


    . . . Islam was the world's dominant civilisation (a third of the known world) for hundreds of years and the most advanced that there had been.  Roll Eyes


    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #114 - April 12, 2009, 10:57 AM

    It's not at all fair to lagging state of muslim countries negate the historically progressive role of Islam and its achievements.

    What? All you're really saying is that they were progressive when they were progressive and they weren't when they weren't. Same applies to anyone else. In other words, you have no point.


    Islam was progressive. That is a point worth making.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #115 - April 12, 2009, 10:57 AM

    Bullshit. For a start Islam is a religion, not a civilisation. There are plenty of Islamic societies which are not "civilised". Some of them are, but not all.

    If Islam isn't a civilisation it certainly was. All countries in which Islam is the dominant religion are civilised societies too. Civilised not "civilised".

    Then by the same standard you have to call Christianity a civilisation rather than a religion. Are you prepared to do that?


    Quote
    Quote
    Second, those "canonisations of Mohammed" are part of mainstream Islam and have been for centuries. Ergo, they may not be the religion but they are certainly part of it. My question still stands and your charge of "strawman" is pathetic.

    This is about beliefs not about laws and practices that were developed or adopted. My strawman charge sticks. That Islam has punishments for adultery and apostasy is completely irrelevant.

    Those punishments are part of the beliefs. If you are going to assert that Islam is "religion in its highest form" then you have to account for those punishments. You can twist and turn all you like but it wont do you a damned bit of good. You made the mistake of coming out with a ridiculous assertion and now you either have to retract it or support it. So far you have done neither.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #116 - April 12, 2009, 10:59 AM

    All your arguments in favor of monotheism are strawmen as well. In theory or practice, they don't constitute any higher civilization, at least the monotheism called Islam definitely didn't, the other two are also not universally superior.

    . . . Islam was the world's dominant civilisation (a third of the known world) for hundreds of years and the most advanced that there had been.  Roll Eyes

    Really? So that's interesting, because I was under the misapprehension that the achievements of others were also rather impressive.  Roll Eyes

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #117 - April 12, 2009, 11:00 AM

    It's not at all fair to lagging state of muslim countries negate the historically progressive role of Islam and its achievements.

    What? All you're really saying is that they were progressive when they were progressive and they weren't when they weren't. Same applies to anyone else. In other words, you have no point.

    Islam was progressive. That is a point worth making.

    And now is not, which is also a point worth making, although somehow you regard this as "unfair".

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #118 - April 12, 2009, 11:02 AM

    Again this isn't a universal movement of polytheism followed by monotheism. Buddhism came out of a polytheistic society, it preached an agnostic doctrine,
    seems it skipped the monotheistic stage. The Jains are an atheistic belief system, seems they too skipped the monotheistic stage.

    Some polytheistic faiths have lasted & thrived into the modern societies.


    It's a tendency.



    Again, this proves no inherent superiority.


    I mean the fact you have a god that lives on some rock not holy places. I didn't say there aren't leftovers like in Islam there are djinn, angels etc.



    Again, no proof of intellectual superiority there, as I said superstitions are not at all eliminated, just concentrated in One God. So the One God Allah sends Jibreel to dictate a book to Muhammad in a cave, Muhammad receives Revelations for 23 years, amongst them, Quran 033.053 says that guests shouldn't linger too long at Muhammad's house & not barge into his house either.  grin12 So the stories of monotheism become boring, but superstitions & absurdities remain, just concentrated in One God & His Prophets!  dance

    I disagree. Islamic tawheed is remarkably free from superstition. You need to understand that at that time there's not the means in terms of knowledge to negate god and some other beliefs. Anyone sensible would have accepted the existence of god hundreds of years ago. On the other hand ancient atheism is really pantheism - a primitive phenomenon.


    Not at all, the idea that the One God of the Universe will dictate a book to a man in a Cave, which says that a woman should get half her brother's inheritance or that Jews & Christians should be taxed, the Prophet getting intermittent Revelations from the God & swooning & sweating are the heights of superstition!  Tongue

    No wonder majority of the Meccan pagans & Jews refused to take Muhammad seriously, first he threatened that Allah'll burn them in Hell, when that didn't work he actually smashed their idols, killed a tribe of Jews' & forcefully cleansed Saudi of other faiths, a legacy which endures to this day as no other place of worship is allowed in Saudi.

    It's not at all fair to lagging state of muslim countries negate the historically progressive role of Islam and its achievements.


    True, & its not fair to negate the historically regressive role of Islam on other faiths & countries either. For instance the destruction of Nalanda University, a great Centre of Buddhist learning, where students from China, Korea & other places of South East Asia came to study. It was smashed by Muslim conquerors who enquired whether it had a Quran before smashing it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University

    BTW, other polytheistic civilizations too have comparable, if not better achievements, the zero was invented in India, China gave the world paper, gunpowder & compass, why even Ancient Egypt gave the world calendars!


    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: If Monotheism's an improvement over polytheism, then Atheism's the best!
     Reply #119 - April 12, 2009, 11:03 AM

    Then by the same standard you have to call Christianity a civilisation rather than a religion. Are you prepared to do that?


    Christendom was a civilisation.

    Quote
    Those punishments are part of the beliefs.


    ...Of course you weren't going to let that shit fly. Those were historically necessary, as I already said.

    Quote
    If you are going to assert that Islam is "religion in its highest form" then you have to account for those punishments. You can twist and turn all you like but it wont do you a damned bit of good. You made the mistake of coming out with a ridiculous assertion and now you either have to retract it or support it. So far you have done neither.


    I stand by my assertion.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Previous page 1 2 3 45 6 7 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »