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Theme Changer

 Topic: Life is a Test!

 (Read 32259 times)
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  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #30 - June 05, 2009, 11:42 AM

    When a teacher tests a student and then rewards or punishes the student, he does that, so that the student learns stuff he needs in his further life.

    When someone does not pass God's test and ends in hell, what is the purpose of that punishment? The poor sinner has no chance to correct the errors he has made, since hell is eternal and you don't get a second chane.

    So, why would God punish people with hell?

    The student can use what he has learned during school in his later life. But where can you use what you have learned during the test of life?


    I love using the teacher and student thought experiment. It's probably the first thing you think of when you think of the word "test" especially if your a student or teacher yourself.

    If it was possible that the teacher could somehow zap into the brain of the student, everything that the student needs to know to go on to do what he/she wants to do, then there would be no need for a test. However, because the teacher cannot do that, there is a need for testing. But with Allah, everything is supposed to be possible, except for perhaps the illogical/inconceivable. But what is illogical/inconceivable about Allah putting the knowledge in our brains for what we need to do what we need to do in later life? After all, he put the knowledge into Muhammad's mind of the revelation.

    We also need to ask, why do we need to know certain things in order to be what we want to be later on in life? It is because the world is of finite resources. What does that mean? It means that when you apply for a job, the boss will not accept all his/her applicants, simply because he/she cannot. The boss has limited wealth in order to pay the wages of his/her workers. Also, the boss only needs a finite number of tasks doing in his business, so too many workers would be unnecessary. Why does the boss only need a finite number of tasks doing? It is because the boss can only afford a finite amount of raw resources in order for his/her workers to work on. I can follow this further, but the general principle is that we are limited in everything. That is the need for testing. But what need is there for God to test? He has unlimited wealth, so he could afford to let an inifinite amount of people into heaven. Even if were thinking about spiritual wealth. Human's potential to have spiritual wealth is hindered by the nature that humans were given. But that human nature was created for us by God. God creates spiritual wealth, too. Heaven is infinite in resources too, so it is not that God cannot fit everybody into heaven. What need does God have to test us?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #31 - June 05, 2009, 11:49 AM

    give the "heavens" revelation? WTF does that even mean? like reciting quran to Pulsars and Mt. Everest? This is all nuts.


    It could mean they gave the revelation to those who reside in heaven (like angels) and those who reside in Earth (humans and mountains)?

    And if mountains had free will then it would make sense to offer them a revelation and for them to reject it but, apparently kope has just told us that mountains don't have free will, but I think kope is wrong. Muslims beleive that stones on the day of judgment will talk to them to tell the believers that Jews are hiding behind them. Also, Muhammad said in a hadith that if you finish your meal by wiping the plate clean, such as by putting water onto the plate and then drinking the water, then the plate will make dua for you, so the plate has some form of consciousness or free will. Also, the trees are supposed to whisper at night, arn't they? Also, your supposed to pray in as many spots on the Earth as possible so that those spots will make dua for you whilst your doing your daily activites. I think that's right.

    I'm pretty sure Muslims have a belief that all inanimate objects have some form of consciousness/free will.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #32 - June 05, 2009, 12:17 PM


    Life is a Test!


    God dont give us pain/sickness nor pleasure/wealth but he put us in a world where human face both, some time by choice some time not.

    regardless what are our situation is good or bad, God want human to (TRY) to be good, that is our test, if we pass the test he will reward us paradise.



    If we are born with a debilitating disease or deformity, or born in abject poverty where we are likely to suffer and die before we reach the age of 2 then what kind of test is that?

    God puts us here. We can be born with many sicknesses. It is God who creates us with AIDS or whatever. Or born in a place where we are likely to get cholera or malaria that will make us suffer. A child dies every 40 seconds from malaria.

    What kind of test is god putting us through? How can such a child try and be good when even mere survival is beyond their control?

    No God could possibly run a world like this. Unless of course he is sadistic.



    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #33 - June 05, 2009, 12:27 PM

    God is an evil trickster:
    He created us out of boredom so he could watch us struggle to worship him after telling us that he's actually benevolent and is going to reward those who mindlessly kiss his omnipotent ass.
    But at the end he will simply punish us all for eternity, laughing at those who believed his false messages, watching their utter desperation.
    For the lulz.

    That would probably make a more logically consistent monotheist doctrine than Christianity and Islam Grin

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #34 - June 05, 2009, 03:55 PM

    That's the kind of God I think exists.

    This bit really hits home the message:

    Quote
    What kind of test is god putting us through? How can such a child try and be good when even mere survival is beyond their control?


    Totally..

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #35 - June 05, 2009, 10:51 PM

    In fact, I've only just watched the video now cuz I saw Islame comment on Hassan's new thread saying it isn't as good as this video, so I had to check it out.

    I had a debate with someone the other day on this very topic. It was basically about the problem of evil in the world and she tried to explain evil by saying it is a test to make us better human beings. I should send her the link to this video.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #36 - June 05, 2009, 10:53 PM

    She tried to explain evil by saying it is a test to make us better human beings.


    It's like what kope said earlier in this thread... when I asked him why does god do that and what god is getting from doing that, well, kope disappeared. Hmmmm... could it be religious people don't have an answer for that.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #37 - June 06, 2009, 01:46 AM


     
    Why does God do what you are saying he does (test people)? What does God get out of doing that?



    well, before human god created creature of blood and bone ie animals birds, insects etc than god wanted to create a creature of blood and bone who can build civilization so god created human with sophisticated brain, hands, feets, eyes, ears, legs, etc with free will  and this new creature can do good and bad with their own choice.

    our test is if we do good to other human we pass the test and god will rewards us glorious paradise
     

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #38 - June 06, 2009, 02:33 AM

    There is a Chinese view of heaven and hell which I find much more appealing than the Abrahamic one. Heaven and hell are exactly the same. At dinner time, there is a very large table in heaven and the same in hell. The respective residents of each place go to their table and eat with very long chopsticks. They are so long that it is impossible to feed yourself with them. What gives heaven its name, is the people who are selfless and they use the long chopsticks to feed each other. What gives hell its name, is the people who are selfish and they keep on trying in vain to feed themselves with their own chopsticks. They go hungry and they are angry because they cannot even get a mouthful. The residents of heaven have already finished their meals and are satisfied.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #39 - June 06, 2009, 02:41 AM

    There is a Chinese view of heaven and hell which I find much more appealing than the Abrahamic one. Heaven and hell are exactly the same. At dinner time, there is a very large table in heaven and the same in hell. The respective residents of each place go to their table and eat with very long chopsticks. They are so long that it is impossible to feed yourself with them. What gives heaven its name, is the people who are selfless and they use the long chopsticks to feed each other. What gives hell its name, is the people who are selfish and they keep on trying in vain to feed themselves with their own chopsticks. They go hungry and they are angry because they cannot even get a mouthful. The residents of heaven have already finished their meals and are satisfied.

     thnkyu for sharing your wisdom

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #40 - June 06, 2009, 08:25 AM

    What total bollocks. It's obvious that the chopsticks are for poking peoples' eyes out and then you can use your fingers to get more than your fair share of rice.
    Wisdom my arse!

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #41 - June 06, 2009, 12:01 PM

    There is a Chinese view of heaven and hell which I find much more appealing than the Abrahamic one. Heaven and hell are exactly the same. At dinner time, there is a very large table in heaven and the same in hell. The respective residents of each place go to their table and eat with very long chopsticks. They are so long that it is impossible to feed yourself with them. What gives heaven its name, is the people who are selfless and they use the long chopsticks to feed each other. What gives hell its name, is the people who are selfish and they keep on trying in vain to feed themselves with their own chopsticks. They go hungry and they are angry because they cannot even get a mouthful. The residents of heaven have already finished their meals and are satisfied.


    I heard this story before but labeled as "traditional Sufi"  Huh?
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #42 - June 06, 2009, 12:13 PM

    a case of chinese whispers?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #43 - June 06, 2009, 12:42 PM

    What total bollocks. It's obvious that the chopsticks are for poking peoples' eyes out and then you can use your fingers to get more than your fair share of rice.
    Wisdom my arse!


    In my version of the story, the chopsticks are spoons and the rice is soup.  grin12
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #44 - June 06, 2009, 01:08 PM

    In my version of the story, the chopsticks are spoons and the rice is soup.  grin12


    And the bowls are fixed to the table  grin12

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #45 - June 06, 2009, 02:53 PM

    This is where I first heard of this story:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHxl7ampYs
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #46 - June 06, 2009, 03:05 PM

    That is really beautiful, NineBerry. Thanks for sharing. Smiley

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #47 - June 06, 2009, 05:40 PM

    well, before human god created creature of blood and bone ie animals birds, insects etc than god wanted to create a creature of blood and bone who can build civilization so god created human with sophisticated brain, hands, feets, eyes, ears, legs, etc with free will  and this new creature can do good and bad with their own choice.

    our test is if we do good to other human we pass the test and god will rewards us glorious paradise


    That doesn't answer the question: What does God get out of testing humans with pain, suffering and evil?

    I'm not asking what humans get, I'm asking what does God get out of this whole set up?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #48 - June 06, 2009, 06:22 PM

    That doesn't answer the question: What does God get out of testing humans with pain, suffering and evil?

    I'm not asking what humans get, I'm asking what does God get out of this whole set up?


    nothing

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #49 - June 06, 2009, 06:29 PM

    nothing


    Then why did he set things up this way?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #50 - June 06, 2009, 06:44 PM

    Then why did he set things up this way?


    well, he have other ways before, this time something new

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #51 - June 06, 2009, 06:45 PM

    well, he have other ways before, this time something new


    That doesn't even attempt to answer the question of why.  Roll Eyes

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #52 - June 06, 2009, 06:52 PM

    That doesn't even attempt to answer the question of why.  Roll Eyes



    maybe i dont understand the question

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #53 - June 06, 2009, 06:56 PM


    maybe i dont understand the question


    The question is why did Allah set things up this way - ie, life being a test, you get tortured for all eternity if you fail, even though Allah knows the answer to the test all along.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #54 - June 06, 2009, 06:58 PM

    kope, if you don't understand the question, try scrolling up and reading it again slowly.

    I asked you "What does God get out of testing humans with pain, suffering and evil?"

    You said "nothing"

    Then I asked "Then why did he set things up this way?"

    You said
    well, he have other ways before, this time something new


    That doesn't answer the question. WHY did he set things up this way?

    I'll try and clarify the question: If God gets nothing out of this set up of testing humans, then why did he set things up to test humans?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #55 - June 06, 2009, 07:05 PM

    The question is why did Allah set things up this way - ie, life being a test, you get tortured for all eternity if you fail, even though Allah knows the answer to the test all along.


    we are not god's robots, god gave us free will that mean we have a choice to do good and bad and our choice let to heaven or hell


    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #56 - June 06, 2009, 07:06 PM

    Yes, but why?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #57 - June 06, 2009, 07:08 PM

    we are not god's robots, god gave us free will that mean we have a choice to do good and bad and our choice let to heaven or hell


    Why did "god gave us free will"? What does he get from that?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #58 - June 06, 2009, 07:09 PM

    Yes, but why?


    what do you mean?

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
  • Re: Life is a Test!
     Reply #59 - June 06, 2009, 07:10 PM

    what do you mean?


    Why did God set things up that way?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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