Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
October 07, 2025, 09:03 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
October 07, 2025, 09:50 AM

What's happened to the fo...
October 06, 2025, 11:58 AM

New Britain
October 05, 2025, 08:07 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
October 05, 2025, 07:55 AM

Kashmir endgame
October 04, 2025, 10:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
October 04, 2025, 09:23 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
October 02, 2025, 12:03 PM

الحبيب من يشبه اكثر؟؟؟
by akay
September 24, 2025, 11:55 AM

Muslim grooming gangs sti...
September 20, 2025, 07:39 PM

Jesus mythicism
by zeca
September 13, 2025, 10:59 PM

Orientalism - Edward Said
by zeca
August 22, 2025, 07:41 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Women

 (Read 63623 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 ... 15 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Women
     Reply #180 - April 09, 2010, 10:38 AM

    James, not believing in  something is not that same as agreeing about everything else. It's common on (for example) atheist forums to find a lot of disagreement about a lot of issues.


    I thought that because Islam absorbed so much of our lives, as it tends to do to people, that we would all have been through a similar journey and that we would all have left Islam because of similar frustrations. Especially as we're influenced by liberal values that are dominant in our society (and most of us I think left Islam because we realized the superiority of a liberal world view). I didn't see leaving Islam as merely no longer holding one particular belief. This is something ex-Muslims will understand better. Leaving Islam was a positive step towards something big. We all took that step. It's a step that will inevitably effect our consequent beliefs. There ought to be much in that to bring us close together. I still think that to some extent. It wasn't that we just rejected a theory that is going to have no effect on other theories we adopt; it's not as simple as that.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #181 - April 09, 2010, 10:40 AM

    Sure. I understand what you are saying. You can still expect a lot of disagreement though, simply because different people have different ideas.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #182 - April 09, 2010, 10:41 AM

    King tut is not harmless at all. If he was banned previously, and then he called me names after being unbanned, then he should be perm-banned. Esp. if iblis is getting 2 months for 1 post out of his 5-6k.

    Lol sorry, I was kidding there. I thought it was obvious that Tut is not much liked around here cause he trolls all the time.
    In fact when random troll appears they are instantly accused of being Tut.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #183 - April 09, 2010, 10:49 AM

    When I joined this forum I wanted it to be more proactive towards making a change in society. That doesn't mean that this forum can't be a place that offers support and a listening ear to those doubting Muslims who want a platform to talk about their doubts. In fact it might even be better at doing that if this forum was more political. But this forum, how it is now, is more of a doss house. It's a doss house because it actually takes away your spare time that might have otherwise gone into changing society for the better.

    Maybe there are members here that are actually making a difference in society, in which case I apologize, but we never get to hear or talk about their stories.

    When I was a Muslim, there were Muslim organizations and forums that were working towards changing society. Though I may not have liked some of them, I secretly admired them for their motivation and energy. Why can't this forum be the same?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #184 - April 09, 2010, 10:52 AM

    Story with Tut is that he's sort of like part of the furniture and we did't take him all that seriously. We're pretty much over his crap now though. It gets to a point where you just want to hit the off button.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #185 - April 09, 2010, 11:03 AM

    Maybe there are members here that are actually making a difference in society, in which case I apologize, but we never get to hear or talk about their stories.

    When I was a Muslim, there were Muslim organizations and forums that were working towards changing society. Though I may not have liked some of them, I secretly admired them for their motivation and energy. Why can't this forum be the same?

    Well there is the actual Council itself, which does get involved in various projects. Plus some people here are reaching out via their videos and influencing others. But sure, if you have any good ideas then feel free to mention them. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #186 - April 09, 2010, 11:11 AM

    They ought to see a therapist. I've never met anyone who 'wants' to keep an unhealthy characteristic which keeps their body unhealthy, clogs their blood, and may give them an early heart attack.

    So you've never met smokers nor people who like to eat a shitload of salt, nor people who hate vegetables, nor people who don't like physical activity (even if they are thin), etcetera?

    If someone wants to be fat, they have quite a low self esteem/respect for their body. which underlines other psychological issues that they should see a therapist about.

    I'll use pseudo psychology as well to say that if somebody likes to bully and make fun of fat people, they have insecurity issues that are being projected onto others, and should see a therapist about it.

    99.9999999% of fat people don't wan't to be fat, and if they simply change their diet and start to exercise, they will see a change.

    I wouldn't be so sure.
    What are you basing your statistics on, besides your own view of the world?

    You could not even claim that it's "not natural" to desire to be fat.
    I'll give you two counter-examples:

    • In times and areas where food is scarce, being fat is seen as a positive quality. It represents both wealth and good genetics (better energy optimization by the body in time of famine IS a desirable quality in a wild environment).
    • Even in modern wealthy societies, there is a considerable amount of people who find fat bodies sexually attractive.

    What Iblis said (something like 'I always wanted to be a hooker, fat chicks need love too') doesn't show a dislike of fat people at all. Unless he said it to the face in front of a fat woman, in which case I would agree that it was disrespectful. But posting it on an online forum clearly as a joke, should only be taken as a joke.

    Since it mentions fat people, the three available options here, are:
    • It shows disliking for fat people
    • It shows liking for fat people
    • It shows a neutral judgment for fat people

    If it showed a liking for fat people, then it would not link fatness to "not being able to find love".
    If it showed neutrality for fat people, then adding it to the joke would be not be considered humorous. It would be like saying "chicks whose name end with 'N' need love too".

    We're not babies here whom you need to 'mother' and only allow to say things that don't contain any naughty words. Sheesh.

    I think the point "we" are trying to make is:

    Fine, "you" (or anyone) can insult fat people. We can't really stop "you" from doing that.
    But if somebody gets offended do not blame them for finding a discriminating joke offensive, or by saying that such discrimination doesn't exist: that's illogical.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #187 - April 09, 2010, 11:20 AM

    Though I may not have liked some of them, I secretly admired them for their motivation and energy.

    Nothing is stopping from you doing the same..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Women
     Reply #188 - April 09, 2010, 12:17 PM

    In fact when random troll appears they are instantly accused of being Tut.

    Well the last guy (IslamMythology) was arguably tut.. when someone asked about tut in the shoutbox he went 'tut wants his ban lifted' even though he said he never heard of tut. Anyone else agree that he was tut?
  • Re: Women
     Reply #189 - April 09, 2010, 12:18 PM

    We're pretty much over his crap now though. It gets to a point where you just want to hit the off button.

    Whew, thank allah for that!
  • Re: Women
     Reply #190 - April 09, 2010, 12:19 PM

    Well the last guy (IslamMythology) was arguably tut.. when someone asked about tut in the shoutbox he went 'tut wants his ban lifted' even though he said he never heard of tut. Anyone else agree that he was tut?

    yep, I think IM was Tut too..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Women
     Reply #191 - April 09, 2010, 12:35 PM

    I've never seen enough of the show to say that it is personally offensive to me.  I don't watch it because I don't think it's that funny.  I know that it is considered by many to be offensive, like 'South Park' is (although I don't think it's considered as provocative).  The quote, however, I did find offensive.  Last time I checked, even I, as a member, had the right to point something out here that I don't like, like everyone else does.

    My post was not meant to be confrontative and I am sorry if it came across as such. I was merely trying to get a better understanding for your position.

    And of course you have the right to point out something that you don't like just as everybody else does and I do understand why you found the quote offensive.

    Still I think this to be a misunderstanding that escalated beyond recognition.

    Did I say that?

    Well, I don't know. That is why I am asking.
    This is the bit that made me wonder:

    OMFG no, and maybe you should attribute the quote next time instead of assuming everyone watches cartoons, and if posted in a context like this, it would still come off as unnecessary and a bit hateful.


    Maybe I should clarify: Iblis took the quote from The Family Guy (which I don’t know much about), and the writers of that quote wrote it for a character that seems to be defined by being offensive. That’s what makes it funny. And yes, offensive statements can be quite funny in the right context. Maybe in the context of that thread you thought it was funny, but someone else was offended, which is NOT surprising because it was written to be offensive.

    Just to be clear: it was originally written to be offensive. I’m sure Iblis did not mean to actually offend anyone by posting it, but he used an offensive joke as a way to be funny. It’s not the first time he’s done it, and sometimes it’s funny. This time, though, as I said it was not in line with the rest of the thread as no one else was joking around. The bottom line is, someone did take offence to an offensive joke, and he should have just apologized.

    What do you mean by "a character that seems to be defined by being offensive"? Shock value?
    It is true that Family Guy does use such statements to shock the viewer but it does go deeper than that. Way deeper.

    Glenn Quagmire is (just like the rest of the characters in Family Guy) an archetypal character designed to show a mirror image to the general US public - that is to say: "This is what you look like! And the image is not a pleasant one!"
    To be more precise Quagmire is a hypersexual individual based on anachronistic 1950s party-animal clichés.

    But it goes even deeper than that.

    In order to understand Quagmire one must understand his motivations.
    The reason why he is like he is lies in the fact that years ago his only true love dumped him and as a result he is trying to fill in this void by being sexist and promiscuous.
    The message here is that only a true romantic can be a misogynist twat.

    This is what Jeremy Wisnewski (this is a guy who analysis Wittgenstein for a living btw) had to say about Family Guy in his "Family Guy" and Philosophy: A Cure for the Petarded: "It's philosophically deep but makes philosophical points in ways that make you laugh, that are easily accepted by the average Joe."


    Problem is that instead of explaining this and apologizing Iblis went all berserk.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #192 - April 09, 2010, 12:41 PM

    @Tlaloc, look dude. We're not sexist, miscogynst, and we don't hate or even dislike fat people. We simply make jokes about things we find funny. Its an easy to see fact that fat chicks don't get laid a lot. Iblis made a funny joke related to this fact. That's it.

    If you don't like being fat, do something about it rather than get mad at people who make a joke about a very funny social phenomena. Its not our fault that jokes about the sex lives of fat women make us laugh. Don't expect us to comply with illogical, overly political correct views which will make life extremely boring and bland.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #193 - April 09, 2010, 01:11 PM

    yep, I think IM was Tut too..

    What about you Os, what do you think?
  • Re: Women
     Reply #194 - April 09, 2010, 01:21 PM

    I'll refrain from commenting at the moment.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Women
     Reply #195 - April 09, 2010, 01:25 PM

    What about you Os, what do you think?


    There is no way IM was Tut. IM had an advanced vocabulary. Tut doesn't have the brains to fake that.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Women
     Reply #196 - April 09, 2010, 01:27 PM

    Tut also has a good vocabluary..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Women
     Reply #197 - April 09, 2010, 01:27 PM

    It doesn't take any brains to have a good vocabulary if someone's first language is english, tut has used words like that in the past. Do a search through some of his posts, they're actually quite similar to IM's.

    I'll refrain from commenting at the moment.

    Aww, why?  Cry
  • Re: Women
     Reply #198 - April 09, 2010, 06:42 PM

    Here are a few:

    And there have been others, both in the shoutbox and in the forum posts.


    I don't really see what the fuss is about. Quickly scanning though those, most of them seem to be either tongue-in-cheek or aimed at a specific stereotype, which you have taken as being derogatory towards all women/womanhood. Take the bodybuilder thread, if those comments were aimed at excessively muscular men (which I think looks nasty) would you have done anything about it? I don't think so. So who is the sexist? Get back to the kitchen where you belong darling.

    See, you could now either -

    1) realise that it was an attempt at humour considering the topic of this thread and the old cliche about women/kitchens, and in no way meant to deride women or suggest that they belong solely in the kitchen (they need to be in the bedroom too sometimes. Wink ) Or you could....

    2) throw a hissy fit and take offence when there really is no need to. And then take offence over my use of "hissy fit". And then probably take offence over my suggestion that you may take offence.

    Quote
    Ask a black person and they'll tell you that there are funny jokes about black people and then there are racist jokes about black people.


    That was my point. There are also funny jokes about women and then there are misogynistic 'jokes' about women. We don't seem to be seeing eye-to-eye on where the line is.

    Quote
    I enjoyed some of his posts too, other ones where he was letting his more mature side come through. I was shocked to see him go off the way he did. He'd been warned before and this time he stepped way out of line with his remark to Manat.


    I've never really been one to initiate or be affected by personal attacks on the internet, so I personally would not have wanted someone banned for that. Though I realise other people feel differently.

    Quote
    The women and men who are here found many of the sexist crap like the stuff I linked to above, to be over the top and derogatory. This IS an ex muslim forum, if someon, a Muslim e.g. doesn't like Manat's avatar, then they won't like most of the things we discuss here.

    You have the right to complain. But you are not a woman and you are obviously trying to use this one non-issue to justify your support of misogynistic posts and attitudes.


    Actually I was just trying to point out her hypocrisy. She wrote that if she was still a questioning Muslimah, she might not have even joined this forum because of 'this juvenile shit'. My point is that I think questioning Muslim women may not join this forum after seeing avatars like hers.

    Quote
    I've studied comedy, acting, performance, and their history. I'm not getting into an analysis of the philosophy of comedy, if you don't think comedians can ever be racist, sexist or homophobic, then you obviously are very sheltered or very young.


    If someone is intentionally being racist or homophobic I personally wouldn't call that comedy, I'd call it racism/homophobia. But just because someone is not part of the 'target group' does not mean they cannot make harmless jokes about them. I make jokes to my black friends, about them being black, all the time. Then you can decide if you're going to laugh or take offence where none was meant. People seem to go for the latter too much for my liking, I think they just need to grow thicker skins. I can't stand the PC culture, and I think this forum would be a better place if people didn't have to look over their shoulders for the internet police. Frat parties are fun, lighten up a bit!  Smiley Still, it's your site I guess, if you want to get all stroppy over every comment which makes fun of a woman/women I'm willing to play along. It's a pain in the arse but whatever.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #199 - April 09, 2010, 06:49 PM

    Is that you Q-man, changing your name again?

    Anyway, I'm not gonna lie - I have found the use of words such as ho, slut, fag, slag(unless slag is being used in "the sweeney" sense of the word) rather uncomfortable. These are offensive words which are as offensive as nigger, and i don't think there is any real need for it.


    I think quite a few members here know how much I hate those words.

    I totally agree with your OP manat.  Afro

    I haven't felt comfortable with a few things recently, but I'm always worried that because of who I am, I maybe take things too personally at times, which is why (aside from my rants at members who use the bolded words in the quote above) I have just kept quiet.






    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #200 - April 09, 2010, 06:49 PM

    @Tlaloc, look dude. We're not sexist, miscogynst, and we don't hate or even dislike fat people. We simply make jokes about things we find funny. Its an easy to see fact that fat chicks don't get laid a lot. Iblis made a funny joke related to this fact. That's it.

    Well, from all you said, you DO seem to have a problem with fat people.
    You even suggested their behavior should not be encouraged because it's negative.

    Do you realize that you could swap "fat" with "homosexual" and all your "reasons" sound identical to those of homophobic people?

    Example:
    "We are not homophobic, we don't hate or dislike gays. We simple make jokes about things we find funny. It's an easy to see fact that gays like it up the ass. Xxxx made a funny joke related to this fact. That's it."

    If you don't like being fat, do something about it rather than get mad at people who make a joke about a very funny social phenomena. Its not our fault that jokes about the sex lives of fat women make us laugh. Don't expect us to comply with illogical, overly political correct views which will make life extremely boring and bland.

    I am not blaming you for finding it funny.
    I am blaming you for blaming THEM for being offended by it.

    "If you don't like being gay, do something about it rather than get mad at people who make a joke about a very funny social phenomena. Its not our fault that jokes about the sex lives of gays make us laugh. Don't expect us to comply with illogical, overly political correct views which will make life extremely boring and bland."

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #201 - April 09, 2010, 06:54 PM

    There are also funny jokes about women and then there are misogynistic 'jokes' about women. We don't seem to be seeing eye-to-eye on where the line is.


    Oh ok so YOU get to speak for women, but women don't get to speak for themselves is that it?? Cheesy

    There have been a number of women in this thread and in other places in the forum that have expressed that they felt many of these "jokes" were sexist and turned them off sometimes from even coming here.

    You don't think so, fine. That's your opinion.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Women
     Reply #202 - April 09, 2010, 07:36 PM

    Oh ok so YOU get to speak for women, but women don't get to speak for themselves is that it?? Cheesy


    Pfft. I know women better than they know themselves.  Wink
  • Re: Women
     Reply #203 - April 09, 2010, 08:23 PM

    There have been a number of women in this thread and in other places in the forum that have expressed that they felt many of these "jokes" were sexist and turned them off sometimes from even coming here.

    This is by bugbear - I dont mind an open environment, but as long as it doesnt put off people from joining.  If the site becomes another 4chan, then it will. 

    Its a fine line, but we must not forget about the goals & aims of this forum first. Perhaps thats the problem, we dont really know what they are  Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Women
     Reply #204 - April 09, 2010, 08:31 PM

    Quote
    but we must not forget about the goals & aims of this forum first. Perhaps thats the problem, we dont really know what they are  Cheesy


    Umm.....maybe you don't, but I do.  They have always been to provide a place where ex muslims can reach out to each other, form a replacement community of sorts due to the cut off from the old, emotional support, a good laugh (which can be had without being all gung ho on ho).  To discuss religion with likeminded people, stuff like that.

    That's always been the function of this forum.

    You know, a quick scan around this forum does not come up with numerous jokes amongst us ladies about what dogs men are,  or all the other chauvanistic jokes we could make.  Interesting.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #205 - April 09, 2010, 08:41 PM

    You know, a quick scan around this forum does not come up with numerous jokes amongst us ladies about what dogs men are,  or all the other chauvanistic jokes we could make.  Interesting.

    Interesting???  You're point being?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Women
     Reply #206 - April 09, 2010, 08:47 PM

    Guys I don't wanna butt in but let's all take it easy.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #207 - April 09, 2010, 09:00 PM

    Interesting???  You're point being?


    I read a few members on here going on about how it's funny therefore it's not wrong, and yet as a woman, female, who doesn't make those jokes that are being so agonizingly defended, have managed to win JoTM, even if I couldn't accept it.

    So funny isn't all about sexist, size-ist, and homophobic jokes.

    People are saying they fear that this place will become to rigid and straight laced if we come down hard on members who go overboard with it, and yet there are untold funnys to be had without crossing that line.

    As to my point, what, wasn't my "joke" about men as funny as one about hoes?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #208 - April 09, 2010, 09:01 PM

    Guys I don't wanna butt in but let's all take it easy.


    Lol I'm cool, I'm far too hippy chilled  right now to not be easy.  dance

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Women
     Reply #209 - April 09, 2010, 09:12 PM

    I read a few members on here going on about how it's funny therefore it's not wrong, and yet as a woman, female, who doesn't make those jokes that are being so agonizingly defended, have managed to win JoTM, even if I couldn't accept it.

    So funny isn't all about sexist, size-ist, and homophobic jokes.

    People are saying they fear that this place will become to rigid and straight laced if we come down hard on members who go overboard with it, and yet there are untold funnys to be had without crossing that line.

    No, the question I asked was what was interesting (as you put it) about the fact that you noticed men crack for more jokes about women than women do about men?  What does it tell you?
    Quote
    As to my point, what, wasn't my "joke" about men as funny as one about hoes?

    I must have missed it, can you requote it for me?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 ... 15 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »