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 Topic: Free Will vs. God's plan

 (Read 20784 times)
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  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #60 - October 18, 2013, 02:38 AM
    Because you made that statement, I won't bother responding to your request.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #61 - October 18, 2013, 02:43 AM
     Roll Eyes You mean you can't think of an answer at the moment, and want to hide behind a sense of your own importance? Ok. Suit yourself.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #62 - October 18, 2013, 02:49 AM
    No because arrogant Atheists who try to insult me are in no way worthy of my time to argue with.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #63 - October 18, 2013, 03:11 AM
    You're sulking. It's very mature of you. Afro

    Your sentence appeared to be completely nonsensical. Although grammatically correct it is, like the famous example "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously", apparently merely a collection of words that do not actually mean anything.

    It has the ring of a pat answer that will not stand up to scrutiny, and is therefore preferably left unscrutinised. All it seems to be good for is making shallow people feel deep, since it sounds kinda cool even if nobody really knows what it means, so everyone can just nod their heads wisely and pretend they are party to A Great Truth.

    Now if you have a good rationale for your sentence, you are going to have to explain it to someone here sooner or later. I would say sooner. That being the case, you might as well start now instead of just poking your tongue out at me.

    Before you elevate your high horse to even greater altitudes to distance yourself from the smell of the great unwashed, perhaps you might like to consider that giving answers of the sort you gave is merely a trademark of arrogant theists, and is itself insulting to the intelligence of their audience.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #64 - October 18, 2013, 03:24 AM
    I'm not sulking. I'm pissed.

    Unless someone else asks me about it or a similar question, you will not get an answer from me.

  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #65 - October 18, 2013, 03:26 AM
     Cheesy Oh, well. Be like that then.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #66 - October 18, 2013, 03:34 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on October 18, 2013, 02:28 AM
    Congratulations on fitting those words into one sentence. Now explain what they actually mean. Smiley


    An uncreated time-less entity is the source of all. She calls it God, I call it "I do not know"
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #67 - October 18, 2013, 03:35 AM
    Hey question, just to save time. Assuming someone does want an explanation of your famous sentence, would it be sufficient for them to ask for it in their own words, or do they have to be what you would call suitably respectful before you will deign to answer them?

    If the former, I cannot see why you have not already answered me. If the latter, perhaps you'd be good enough to provide examples of what you would consider an acceptable format. After all, it'd be a bit silly if you ended up with fifty requests for an explanation, and refused all of them because you didn't feel they were sufficiently flattering to your ego.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #68 - October 18, 2013, 03:37 AM
    See, the thing is, C, it's hard for me to believe you are being honest here because earlier when I said this, you said that you essentially agreed. It seems as though you are just pulling out this "single divine act" business as you go along.

    Honestly, it is a meaningless statement. Invisible purple dreams are fuzzy, that is why rivers eat backwards.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #69 - October 18, 2013, 03:39 AM
    Quote from: bogart on October 18, 2013, 03:34 AM
    An uncreated time-less entity is the source of all.

    Nope. Doesn't work. We already knew the existence of such an entity was the standard theist assumption anyway. However, this does nothing to explain how "does not create sequentially.... creates in a single absolute and eternal divine act" would translate to any real world effects, or even what it is supposed to actually mean.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #70 - October 18, 2013, 03:53 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 12:41 AM
    My answer is God does not create sequentially. He creates in a single absolute and eternal divine act.


    I mean, even linguistically that sentence does not make any sense. Think of your verb usage. You may as well say "I will ate last year forever."
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #71 - October 18, 2013, 03:57 AM
    Quote from: bogart on October 18, 2013, 03:34 AM
    An uncreated time-less entity is the source of all. She calls it God, I call it "I do not know"


    Are you deist or agnostic?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #72 - October 18, 2013, 04:05 AM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 03:37 AM
    See, the thing is, C, it's hard for me to believe you are being honest here because earlier when I said this, you said that you essentially agreed. It seems as though you are just pulling out this "single divine act" business as you go along.

    Honestly, it is a meaningless statement. Invisible purple dreams are fuzzy, that is why rivers eat backwards.


    HM I don't see a contradiction between my latest statement and the previous statement. Also I was agreeing with a lot of the statements not all of them.

    Do you want me to elaborate?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #73 - October 18, 2013, 04:29 AM
    I think you can conclude that he does indeed want you to elaborate. He obviously has no idea what your sentence is supposed to mean. That makes two of us.

    One problem you're going to have is explaining how, if your god exists outside of time and does things "timelessly", he manages to make his acts appear to have sequential effects in our standard time-bound frame of reference. I think you'll find it very difficult to come up with an explanation for that.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #74 - October 18, 2013, 07:27 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 12:41 AM
    My answer is God does not create sequentially. He creates in a single absolute and eternal divine act.


    The only sane way to interpret this is that you make up your "God" as you go along.

    There's no harm in that - we're all entitled to our own imaginations - but any claims you make about the truth of this statement must be viewed in this light unless you have some way of proving them. Do you?
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #75 - October 18, 2013, 07:29 AM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 03:57 AM
    Are you deist or agnostic?


    I am an atheist as I do not believe in one. I accept the concept of one in theist and deist lines of thought. I do not think we will find the answer as it is beyond us at this current time and our ability so agnostic as well.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #76 - October 18, 2013, 12:39 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 04:05 AM

    Do you want me to elaborate?


    Please do.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #77 - October 18, 2013, 06:23 PM
    Quote from: toor on October 18, 2013, 07:27 AM
    The only sane way to interpret this is that you make up your "God" as you go along.

    There's no harm in that - we're all entitled to our own imaginations - but any claims you make about the truth of this statement must be viewed in this light unless you have some way of proving them. Do you?


    Have you ever heard of Thomas Aquinas?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #78 - October 18, 2013, 06:28 PM
    Quote
    To bear with patience wrongs done to oneself is a mark of perfection, but to bear with patience wrongs done to someone else is a mark of imperfection and even of actual sin.


    One of my favourite quotes by him.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #79 - October 18, 2013, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 12:39 PM
    Please do.


    While I do believe that God created the universe and he does want to have a relationship with his creation. I also believe in a God who is transcendent and creates in a single absolute and eternal divine act. This does not mean that everything is created at once. God does not create sequentially, it is just that the perfection is not realized all at once. The best way to put this is the universe is on a journey ( evolution ).
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #80 - October 18, 2013, 07:00 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 18, 2013, 06:28 PM
    One of my favourite quotes by him.


    Aquinas was a genius. While I don't buy into his cosmological argument for the existence of God ( most cosmological arguments are not good arguments for the existence of God ) I do fancy his writings on Natural Theology.

    I do have some Aquinas's books on my Kindle.

    As you can see Theology is my thing. I am also currently reading the Imitation of Christ by Thomas a' Kemp.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #81 - October 18, 2013, 07:21 PM
    Do you believe in a literal devil? Lucifer fallen from grace, father of the anti-christ, an actual heaven and an actual hell, knowing our every action and our every thought?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #82 - October 18, 2013, 07:28 PM
    I believe in Satan and an actual Heaven  and Hell. But who will end up in Heaven or Hell,  that will be up to God. I do believe people will go to Hell, but have no real definition of who will end up in Hell.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #83 - October 18, 2013, 07:44 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 06:23 PM
    Have you ever heard of Thomas Aquinas?


    The guy who allegedly produced the greatest* faith-based cop-out of all time? Sure, I've heard of him. 'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.' is strangely familiar to anyone who's read the Qur'an more than once, as Allah's guidance is - we're told several times - not available to the disbelieving.

    Big fucking whoop. Got any more like that?

    * Not really.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #84 - October 18, 2013, 07:49 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 07:28 PM
    I believe in Satan and an actual Heaven  and Hell. But who will end up in Heaven or Hell,  that will be up to God. I do believe people will go to Hell, but have no real definition of who will end up in Hell.


    Why?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #85 - October 18, 2013, 08:05 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 06:47 PM
    I also believe in a God who is transcendent and creates in a single absolute and eternal divine act.

    You've already said that. What people would like is for you to explain how it actually works.

    Quote
    This does not mean that everything is created at once. God does not create sequentially, it is just that the perfection is not realized all at once.

    This doesn't really qualify as an explanation, IMO.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #86 - October 18, 2013, 08:49 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 18, 2013, 07:49 PM
    Why?


    I believe for a couple of reasons. One of them is because I have faith. The rest I do not care to explain or discuss on this site for personal reasons.

    I am open to the possibility that nonbelievers can get into Heaven, but that will be determined by God.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #87 - October 18, 2013, 09:03 PM
    You've qualified your god well beyond any meaningful existence. I'm curious as to what manner you believe he can actually be outside of the confines of your own mind.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #88 - October 18, 2013, 09:39 PM
    I qualified my God as beyond the limits of ordinary experience.

    As for your question I believe for a couple of reasons. One of them is because I have faith. The rest I do not care to explain or discuss on this site for personal reasons.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #89 - October 18, 2013, 09:44 PM
    An imaginary friend, would you agree?

    I almost don't mean that facetiously. It's just that what I essentially hear you saying is that your god exists in a reality that isn't really a part of reality. That, of course, is not reality.
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