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 Topic: Free Will vs. God's plan

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  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #90 - October 18, 2013, 10:16 PM
    Yes I would have to agree. He exist in a reality that is not this reality.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #91 - October 18, 2013, 10:20 PM
    More like a "reality" (big air quotation gestures) that is not reality.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #92 - October 18, 2013, 10:23 PM
    I would still like to know how a god that exists outside of time and does things "timelessly" manages to make his acts appear to have sequential effects in our standard time-bound frame of reference. Stating that he does is one thing. Anyone can make a statement. Having an actual idea of what the statement is supposed to mean is another matter entirely.

    If C1981 is still determined to pretend I'm not asking, would someone else mind asking her this one?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #93 - October 18, 2013, 10:29 PM
    I asked too. I didn't get an answer. The statement is nonsensical in nature. Any answer would be equally as absurd.

    "It is possible to have a triangular square so long as two of the sides are actually one side."
  • Re: Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #94 - October 18, 2013, 11:15 PM
    Quote from: C1981 on October 18, 2013, 08:49 PM
    I am open to the possibility that nonbelievers can get into Heaven, but that will be determined by God.


    What about radical Cartesian/Ghazalian sceptics?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #95 - October 18, 2013, 11:20 PM
    And arrogant atheists! Imagine how annoyed C1981 would be if she got to heaven and I was there. dance
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #96 - October 18, 2013, 11:58 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 10:20 PM
    More like a "reality" (big air quotation gestures) that is not reality.


    Yes. How about spiritual world?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #97 - October 18, 2013, 11:59 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on October 18, 2013, 10:29 PM
    I asked too. I didn't get an answer. The statement is nonsensical in nature. Any answer would be equally as absurd.

    "It is possible to have a triangular square so long as two of the sides are actually one side."


    Could you show me where you asked?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #98 - October 19, 2013, 12:01 AM
    Quote from: schizo on October 18, 2013, 11:15 PM
    What about radical Cartesian/Ghazalian sceptics?


    I am open to the possibility they may go to Heaven. That is up to God.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #99 - October 19, 2013, 03:47 PM
    I find a God who has made such a shallow, cruel place like Hell and to put a "good" person who hasn't harmed anyone or themself will just place them in Hell just because they didn't worship him or was unsure of his existence. I find him sadistic and arrogant, also jealous
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #100 - October 19, 2013, 03:49 PM
    And proud of it.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #101 - October 19, 2013, 03:56 PM
    I don't believe sending someone to Hell is something God is proud of.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #102 - October 19, 2013, 04:02 PM
    Shouldn't of created them then.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #103 - October 19, 2013, 04:24 PM
    Exactly. It's a sadistic torture chamber and it apparently isn't only a place for the ones that do crimes and have purely evil hearts.
    Religious people claim everyone is evil, has evil intentions. And because we sin, we cannot  be saved until we accept Jesus. Well, I am not  a Christian what if I refuse to accept Jesus? It's just another fear tactic. Normal primitive human desires are considered "evil" and "sinful". Oh gee, if God can tell the so called "future", he wouldn't have made us OR he shouldn't care. But since he isn't All Knowing, then it would make more sense why he made us. I find him jealous and needy if he really needs us to worship him. Why? I sometimes wish I wasn't born as a human for being cursed with these stupid "sins" which will get me into Hell no matter how many times I ask for forgiveness. I am a woman therefore I will go to Hell for vanity right?

    Vanity is actually just boasting and bragging about self's looks and appearance. Not trying to look good for yourself. So Islam's logic about women being in hell for vanity just because they want to look beautiful is bollocks.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #104 - October 19, 2013, 04:34 PM
    The god of the old testament and the quran is nothing short of evil in my eyes. The teachings are perverse and degrading to us as a species. If we followed those laws our lives would be so much worse.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #105 - October 19, 2013, 04:49 PM
    Yes, we'd actually be like machines/robots, dull and with no ability to pursue our desires without the wrath of fear of not following his law correctly. I believe we should strive to be good people, learn from our mistakes, love each other and not harm. I believe if it harms, then stay away because it can be detrimental for our bodies and our spirituality. This is a way better theory than "sins", "forbidden" etc. I want a good life, not one based on fear of doing something that displeased some invisible thing in a different world only to be in eternity of torture.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #106 - October 19, 2013, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 19, 2013, 04:02 PM
    Shouldn't of created them then.


    The original purpose of Hell was not to send people there.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #107 - October 19, 2013, 04:52 PM
    See, what you're saying is what religion says but the difference is religion teaches us we can't do it on our own. It's the biggest poison in religion, that without it we can't possibly be good people. that if you don't believe in god you can't be a good person, that you're unable to raise your children to be good, just, kind, moral human beings. It gets so bad that people say they'd do all sorts of horrific things if they lost their belief in a god. It's perverse.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #108 - October 19, 2013, 04:56 PM
    Exactly. My theory should be EVERYONE's. However, religion thinks you need God in order to be moral. No, religion wasn't made when the first evolved humans were on this earth. I hate how they say we suddenly were created and placed on this earth. NO. We evolved from some other organisms, we don't know what. Not monkeys or apes, we're relatives. Also, they say God made us to know right from wrong. That's installed in everyone; and some people misread their moral instincts so they do horrible things. Not because religion tells them what's wrong or right. We don't need religion. Not anymore, because this society knows violence is barbaric.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #109 - October 19, 2013, 04:58 PM
    I think it's rather telling that the more we move away from religion the better our lives are.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #110 - October 19, 2013, 05:01 PM
    I feel less afraid, less scared and less anxious. It's funny how they say we need religion to be moral. Nah. Many atheists are more moral than some religious people. Yeah, some can be quite hateful to be honest, not acting better than the typical close minded religious, but we have to understand that there are good and bad people everywhere. Religion doesn't make a difference to the morality.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #111 - October 19, 2013, 05:01 PM
    Well, except for some exceptions if you know what I mean.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #112 - October 19, 2013, 05:04 PM
    Religion is the only thing In know of that can make good people do bad things for bad reasons.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #113 - October 19, 2013, 05:13 PM
    And all in the name of God.
    Do ut des. I give so you may give.
    Do ut fascias. I give so you may do.
    Deficit omne quod nasciture. Everything that is born will die.
    A preacher's logic: "Fais comme je dis, non comme j'agis." Do as I say, not as I do.
    "Le parole est l'ombre du fait." A word is a shadow of action.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #114 - October 19, 2013, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: melymely on October 19, 2013, 05:13 PM
    And all in the name of ridiculous bullshit.


    Fixed that for you Wink
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #115 - October 19, 2013, 05:37 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 19, 2013, 04:52 PM
    See, what you're saying is what religion says but the difference is religion teaches us we can't do it on our own. It's the biggest poison in religion, that without it we can't possibly be good people. that if you don't believe in god you can't be a good person, that you're unable to raise your children to be good, just, kind, moral human beings. It gets so bad that people say they'd do all sorts of horrific things if they lost their belief in a god. It's perverse.


    We can be good without religion and without the belief in God. But that does not mean we can be perfect.
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #116 - October 19, 2013, 05:39 PM
    Agreed but that wasn't my point.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #117 - October 19, 2013, 05:53 PM
    I know that.

    Believe what you are saying is that religion is bullshit and Theists are being extremely condescending for saying Atheists are immoral because they have no God and do not follow religion. What you are saying is that belief in God and religion is not needed to be good. Am I correct?
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #118 - October 19, 2013, 06:00 PM
    I'm saying that the idea of being good because of god and by extension if there is no god there's no reason to be good is a perverse ideology and a wicked teaching.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Free Will vs. God's plan
     Reply #119 - October 19, 2013, 06:01 PM
    That is what I was trying to say.
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